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#153388 - 05/28/06 05:33 PM Re: Dim-Mak and other related stuff [Re: Ed_Morris]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
Quote:

I think that would be known as a rhetorical question.




No more than you saying someone has to produce a dead body to prove that Dim Mak works.

Quote:

none, since it's bunk



Hmmm... then you say "dim mak possible? yes"... and then
"trainable and reproducable enough to warrent writing a book on it's techniques? no"

If Dim Mak works,(which you say is possible) why couldn't someone teach it's techniques? Why couldn't they write a book on its techniques?

I'm the first one to admit that the old discussions of Dim Mak are not as valid as they once were because of changes in medical knowledge, but I wouldn't throw the baby out with the dishwater quite yet...

Are strikes with the side of a stick and the end of a stick exactly the same?... of course not, and neither are point strikes to kyusho points on the body. There's a lot of "angles" and "types of force application" theories that go into Dim Mak training.

Your analogy with firearms to the neck is a little over the top, because the types of wounds inflicted by the different firearms would negate any "point" strike type of application. You could probably tape a grenade to somebody's neck and do them some serious harm too, but again, that's off the charts with the discussion.

You are clearly looking at only the "immediate effect" of a strike to a hitting point, and not the long term effect of one. Your analogy would be better served with making some comparison to someone dying from a gunshot wound from a temple shot or "later" from a shot into the neck. Both of them would kill the victim, but in different ways... just like a difference between blunt force trauma and trauma to a hitting point.

_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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#153389 - 05/28/06 08:40 PM Re: Dim-Mak and other related stuff [Re: phillip]
Crash Offline
Buckle up!

Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 627
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Want to learn real Dim Mak? go to any well respected Chinese kung fu master that teaches Choy-li-fut, eagels claw, or mabey white eyebrow and train hard with them for about 10 or 15 years, show good moral character and stay out of trouble and mabey they will teach you Dim Mak.

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#153390 - 05/28/06 09:47 PM Re: Dim-Mak and other related stuff [Re: Crash]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
Crash,
that's not really the issue here. Ed's not convinced that Dim Mak is a repeatable skill or that it works as advertised. His "proof of life" is somebody's lifeless body on the floor...

_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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#153391 - 05/28/06 09:50 PM Re: Dim-Mak and other related stuff [Re: wristtwister]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
ah yes, the d34dly 'delayed death touch' ...hey, isn't that what Bruce Lee died of? lol actually there is proof of the delayed death touch...at the end of 'kill bill 2', it marked the death of David Carridine's acting career, with no possiblity of a part 3.

Quote:


"With no training or deep investigation into Dim Mak, Ed's opinion of it is that it's "bunk", so he chooses to ignore any evidence or facts to the contrary. I just have a differing opinion about it."





so when can we expect your book to be out then, with this 'evidence' - you realize you are the only person in the world with such evidence, yes?

The claim of Dim Mak is death or delayed death caused from a direct result of a single 'touch'...but I'd be willing to allow that claim to include very hard strikes.

since the claim involves death, then yes, proof would have to be producing a corpse. then compare it to someone with no dim mak 'training', hitting the same general area and compare results. my prediction: both subjects are knocked out long enough to run away....neither one dies either immediately or as a direct result later, however, they might find it a bit more comfortable over the next few days, reading their Dim Mak book at eye level.

differing opinions is fine. someone asks a recommendation of a book on a subject that is 95% outright fraudulent, and the remaining 5% unprovable - you betcha I tell them not to bother, it would be irresponsible to do otherwise.

Tell you what, if you write a book about Dim Mak and publish it, I'll recommend it to the author of this thread to boost your sales into the double digits, launching you into the 'bestseller' category of Dim Mak material.

by the way wrist, which books do YOU recommend for the (assuming age) 17 year old drive-by posting kid who is asking? also, care to address his understanding of 'muscle separation'...or I guess what he is describing is the concept of an 'anti- dim mak'.

btw, I would have thought a dim-makist would be more attentive to detail...harlan was making light or your unique spelling of 'Myopic Septicism'. Which, my first thought was you were accusing me of some kind of flawed plumbing.

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#153392 - 05/28/06 10:26 PM Re: Dim-Mak and other related stuff [Re: Ed_Morris]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
Quote:

btw, I would have thought a dim-makist would be more attentive to detail...harlan was making light or your unique spelling of 'Myopic Septicism'. Which, my first thought was you were accusing me of some kind of flawed plumbing.




Oh, Ed... so sorry... I don't normally miss spelling corrections. I didn't realize it would upset the applecart after reading some of the other posts here. My sincere apologies...

Quote:

harlan was making light or your unique spelling of 'Myopic Septicism'.


of... maybe?

As for book recommendations, I wouldn't... not because I don't trust the material, but just what you mentioned... the "drive by" user that just can't wait to go try this out on some unsuspecting victim in the dojo. For karate players, the best book out there is the Bubishi which generically shows a lot of "target areas", but doesn't give them the specific angles, etc. That is best left to an instructor who can control who gets the right kind of information.

I wouldn't write a book on Dim Mak technique any more than I would hand a loaded gun to a child, so take an internet victory lap and consider this one a "tactical withdrawel". We clearly disagree, and maybe some issues are best left to the skeptical unbelievers. Why don't you write one on building nuclear bombs and issue it to the general public?



P.s. Here are the FA recommendations, books and sites gleaned from this forum:
http://fightingarts.com/estore/catalog_books_pressure_pts.shtml
http://www.russellstutely.com/
http://www.fightingarts.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Number=15832051&page=0
http://www.fightingarts.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/15785177/an/0/page/1#15785177
http://www.learn.kyusho.com/
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1581602...5Fencoding=UTF8
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0897501...ce&n=283155


Still think I need to write a book? You've got them from $19.95 to $49.95 already... pick a winner...


Edited by wristtwister (05/28/06 11:42 PM)

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#153393 - 05/29/06 12:14 AM Re: Dim-Mak and other related stuff [Re: wristtwister]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
Your search skills are improving young googlehopper

It probably would have saved the person asking the question alot of time if one of us just posted those links first, huh? lol

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#153394 - 05/29/06 08:11 AM Re: Dim-Mak and other related stuff [Re: Ed_Morris]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
My google skills are fine. This was in response to my previous statement "that's not really the issue here. Ed's not convinced that Dim Mak is a repeatable skill or that it works as advertised. His "proof of life" is somebody's lifeless body on the floor..."

You don't believe in it, but you'll sell them the book???... That borders on hypocrisy... but what do I know...

_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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#153395 - 05/29/06 05:56 PM Re: Dim-Mak and other related stuff [Re: wristtwister]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
pointing people to resources is different from selling. it's guiding at best. I wouldn't guide anyone towards a doubly wasted effort (1st buying into death touches and 2nd trying to learn them from a book). I was just joking saying if I first responed with just the links you provided, this thread would have been much shorter and forgotten.
plus, what harm is there? If the person who started the thread can't even find his way back to it...how the heck is he going to manage finding ST-9 at a 53 degree angle? bwahaha

leaning how to hit someone hard around a general area at a general angle is all you need. going thru great pains (and hard earned $$) to learn how to hit some unprovable kill switches is bunk, kidz.

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#153396 - 05/29/06 06:53 PM Re: Dim-Mak and other related stuff [Re: Ed_Morris]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
Ed,
you need to adopt the handle "the artful dodger"...
or maybe "the spinmeister"...

Good try, but no cigar...

_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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#153397 - 05/29/06 07:08 PM Re: Dim-Mak and other related stuff [Re: wristtwister]
Kosh Offline
Member

Registered: 03/04/05
Posts: 302
Loc: Novo mesto, Slovenia
Ed, when shooting, do you aim for the center or do you just shoot in a general area?
_________________________
Peter ...Understanding is a three-edged sword...

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