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#153408 - 05/30/06 10:24 AM Re: Dim-Mak and other related stuff [Re: Kosh]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
well, there you go kosh, the radio wave example gives a clear picture to me of how you misunderstand this. radio waves are transmitted and received thru air, once it get's 'in your radio' it's in the form of elecrical signal. so the wires that you see there are the conduits. snip the right wire, and you no longer can hear your Yanni.

where are the conduits of chi that dim mak technique is disrupting?

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#153409 - 05/30/06 10:34 AM Re: Dim-Mak and other related stuff [Re: Ed_Morris]
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3220
Loc: Derry, NH
Dim Mak has lots of connotations.

First to accept it has validity you have to show me someone who has successfully applied it consitstently. In other words strike X when done will kill every time.

If you can prove such a person exists, do you really want to study with someone who kills people?

That the real rub.

If Dim Mak has a reality, working to avoid being struck that way makes more sense.

The Bubishi tries to have it both ways. Trying to show how to strike to kill, to learn when you're vulnerable by those rules, and in turn to learn how to negate or counter it 'medically'. Off hand there's one point that kills in a few steps or seconds, but there's a treatment for that point being struck too. Of course that would mean you have to have somebody there instantly to counter it?

One of my Chinese friends maintains the Dim Mak stories may have arrisen in the past when many Chinese were mal-nourished and their bodies couldn't handle the pain from being struck. That's an interesting theory. Perhaps someone will volunteer to starve a few years so we can prove it.

And that's the rub, if you really want to prove if, you no longer operate as a 'human' but as a 'klingon'. It's inseperable that you have no human values if you really study the way of 'death'...... assuming it exists.

Do points cause pain... yes. Do points cause great pain..yes. Might death result from some techniques...yes. Can you KO somebody by causing their heart to stop beating, yes surgeon's do so with Carotid Sinus manipulation during surgery all the time.

But there are differen coditions:1) your're attacked suddenly and you're just surviving 2) you're attacked suddenly but you have faster reaction time so you can pick your traget of response 3) you're attacking, especially if unexpected, so you can choose where to strike.

If Chinese medicine has real answers, the next time you are seriously ill will you pick it over your local doctor? If not why accept it's link to Dim Mak?

Some thoughts on something that may exist, or may not, but why does a person want to play that game?


Edited by Victor Smith (05/30/06 10:36 AM)
_________________________
victor smith bushi no te isshinryu offering free instruction for 30 years

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#153410 - 05/30/06 10:46 AM Re: Dim-Mak and other related stuff [Re: Ed_Morris]
Kosh Offline
Member

Registered: 03/04/05
Posts: 302
Loc: Novo mesto, Slovenia
Who`s Yanni?
Funny, that`s something like how I might imagine dim mak working. The counduits are "in" the body. Would they have to be something physical for you to believe they exist? With my example I was just trying to say that if you don`t see something, it doesn`t mean that it doesn`t exist. So what if modern science isn`t able to prove it yet? The system has worked for the chinese for much longer than our medicine...

I think you don`t understand that everything is interrelated.

Quote:

pressure points when defined as vital targets, nerve targets, disrupting blood flow, etc to cause pain, a reaction, or in some areas unconscienceness make perfect sense and are reproducable with practice. This is what Dim-Mak guys are demonstrating when they want you to buy into the 'disrupting chi flow' explaination of what is going on.




See, why is "disrupting chi flow" wrong here? If you strike a nerve or disrupt blood flow, that also means that chi flow is disrupted. Chi flow in my opinion get affected one way or another. The difference is only the way you affect it.
_________________________
Peter ...Understanding is a three-edged sword...

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#153411 - 05/30/06 11:00 AM Re: Dim-Mak and other related stuff [Re: Victor Smith]
Kosh Offline
Member

Registered: 03/04/05
Posts: 302
Loc: Novo mesto, Slovenia
All interesting thoughts Victor. For some it might be better we go to the philosophy section.

Quote:

If Chinese medicine has real answers, the next time you are seriously ill will you pick it over your local doctor? If not why accept it's link to Dim Mak?




Unfortunately I don`t have a practioner of TCM per se, near me. I see western medicine as being a quick fix. Western medicine usually treats symptoms, while TCM treats the underlying causes. So probably (depending on the illness and western ways of treatment), if I got seriously ill I`d get a western doctor to fix me. But afterwards, I would go to the TCM doctor. These two medicines don`t have to exclude each other. I think they would be great working together. Complementary medicine is a nice term.
_________________________
Peter ...Understanding is a three-edged sword...

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#153412 - 05/30/06 11:16 AM Re: Dim-Mak and other related stuff [Re: Kosh]
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3220
Loc: Derry, NH
Kosh,

Interesting theory. Of course there is literally almost no resource to utilize both types of sources across the states. My surgeon does not discount chinese medicine, he just doesn't have supporting research results to accept is as he would his other practices. And that's not an unreasonable answer. You wouldn't want him practicing surgery without supporting research proving the results would you? Modern Medicine isn't tring not to solve medical issues. If the Chinese medical approach can be sufficiently verified it would be endorsed.

But to date I haven't seen that hs occured?
_________________________
victor smith bushi no te isshinryu offering free instruction for 30 years

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#153413 - 05/30/06 11:58 AM Re: Dim-Mak and other related stuff [Re: Kosh]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
ahhh...so you are saying chi has invisible conduits...I see. and the body has something other than bio-electo-mechanical pathways that medical science hasn't discovered yet? Well, it actually has been discovered in another field of study...see: psychology.

If you think they are there, then they are there for you...except you won't be able to prove anything to anyone else other than your belief. If people admire that belief...they will believe it too. see, it's psychology and it's based upon the manipulation of that psychology.

Quote:

Captain Alexander Williams, a New York City police inspector at the time, attributed "There's a sucker born every minute, but none of them ever die" to Joseph Bessimer, a notorious confidence trickster of the early 1880s known to the police as "Paper Collar Joe".



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#153414 - 05/30/06 12:51 PM Re: Dim-Mak and other related stuff [Re: Victor Smith]
Kosh Offline
Member

Registered: 03/04/05
Posts: 302
Loc: Novo mesto, Slovenia
Victor, you are right of course. But, I think that TCM has been used for a very long time, and by hundreds of millions of people, which is one of the reasons why for me research isn`t required. But I understand that`s not how it is for many people.
_________________________
Peter ...Understanding is a three-edged sword...

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#153415 - 05/30/06 12:59 PM Re: Dim-Mak and other related stuff [Re: Kosh]
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3220
Loc: Derry, NH
Kosh,

People have always used what's available, which isn't the same as dependable. After all 'Faith Healing' obtains results too, and you can go to the Church of your choice to also get healed. It's always a question of faith and choice.

But it's too easy to discount modern medical practices as just cleaning up messes. First off what they do is unreal, and takes great training, and is BS to write off the medical miracles they accomplish. Second off, most of the time it happens because people don't listen to or obtain the correct medical advice to prevent the circumstances from happening. I highly doubt modern medical practices if followed correctly destroy the body to then work on it.

It's just wrong to simply this topic with millions of layers all of which are necessary. Look if I say I can cause you great pain with a specific strike, it's not enought that I can do it occasionally, I have to do it 100% and be able to train others to do the same. This is demonstratable testing for transmission competence.

The modern medical world is reasonable to want to see the proof first. They know what they can do, as they live in it.
_________________________
victor smith bushi no te isshinryu offering free instruction for 30 years

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#153416 - 05/30/06 01:00 PM Re: Dim-Mak and other related stuff [Re: Ed_Morris]
Kosh Offline
Member

Registered: 03/04/05
Posts: 302
Loc: Novo mesto, Slovenia
I don`t think I said that they are invisible, I said that you cannot see them, usually. Maybe in the future science will enable this too.
You can`t accept that there are still things that science hasn`t discovered?


As for psychology, EVERYTHING is in my head anyway, as well as EVERYTHING is in your head too.
And thanks for calling me a sucker.
_________________________
Peter ...Understanding is a three-edged sword...

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#153417 - 05/30/06 01:13 PM Re: Dim-Mak and other related stuff [Re: Victor Smith]
Kosh Offline
Member

Registered: 03/04/05
Posts: 302
Loc: Novo mesto, Slovenia
Victor, I`m not trying to write off any medical miracles or something. Western medicine is still amazing, after all, I think it is one of the reasons the life expectancy got higher.
I`m just saying that western medicine might be better for some things and eastern for others. I think it would be great if they would work together...

I think that I basically agree with what you are saying though, it`s just that I don`t need proof. But then again, I`m not part of the modern medical world.
_________________________
Peter ...Understanding is a three-edged sword...

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