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#152907 - 06/07/05 12:55 PM Re: TKD poll [Re: Kintama]
Gemini Offline

Registered: 11/28/04
Posts: 333
Loc: NY, USA

Gemini, are you trying to convince us or yourself? It is what it is, and people do what they do ...and all those zen-like justification phrases. lol kidding. seriously though, you can't explain away the fact that I can go to any random town in the US and within a 10 mile radius have a 1 in 4 chance of locating a TKD school that puts form over money and function over form.

True enough, Kintama, it just seems to me what one considers a McDojo, another does not. That's why I used the example I did. By definition, it's a McDojo but turned out some excellent students because of very capable instructors. I'm just wary of sweeping generalizations. I have no evidence to dispute what you're saying, but I can't say I necessarily agree with it either. 1 in 4? Maybe, but this 70% stuff...I'm sorry but I don't buy that.

BTW, zen? ouch. Do I really sound like that?


#152908 - 06/07/05 01:07 PM Re: TKD poll [Re: Gemini]
Kintama Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Massachusetts
ummmm... 1 in 4 implies 3/4 which is 75%.

so, you agree with a 75% figure, but 70% is out of the question?

I'm too harsh sometimes, I know this. I'm working on it.

#152909 - 06/07/05 01:31 PM Re: TKD poll [Re: Kintama]
Gemini Offline

Registered: 11/28/04
Posts: 333
Loc: NY, USA

ummmm... 1 in 4 implies 3/4 which is 75%.

so, you agree with a 75% figure, but 70% is out of the question?

I'm too harsh sometimes, I know this. I'm working on it.

lol. I seen you harsh. That wasn't it. [wipes seat from forehead]

1 in 4 implies 25%. I was assuming you meant 1 in 4 was bad.

#152910 - 06/07/05 04:01 PM Re: TKD poll [Re: Kintama]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
Kintama and Gemini and Eyrie,

I think you hit on a lot of it. The problem you will note is that most people in McDojos may not recognize that they are in one.

You have to remember a couple of things, that because of the ubiquitousness of TKD, the real dojangs are left to be looked at among a lot of chaff. Because TKD is so very available, it is in some locations that are not accessible by other MAs simply because there are none. This might make you guffaw, but think about it this way: Since someone has been training at these multitudes of McDojangs, there is a greater likelyhood that one of these guys would start a class at a YMCA in a town of 10,000 people as opposed to a smaller, legitimate dojo being there. Therefore you might have a 3rd degree BB with 5 years experience (who probably thinks it is normal for 5 yrs to equal a 3rd degree) who opens up shop and regains connections to his old organization and starts to push out ignorant BBs for bucks.

Then there is that question of money. With rare exception, I have seen most good schools sort of feed on themselves where, when money is tight, the instructor chips in. This way, there is no compromise in promotion testing or money to be made by selling overpriced patches and instructor signed doohickey's, or any other dojo scams. Now, as other's pointed out money is not the question (the most expensive schools, in my opinion these days...for popularity or utilility, are BJJ classes), noted previously when money becomes the sole selling point of the art, something has to give. And I will give the nod to BJJ practioners....all that I have met have earned their belts...and do not pay for testing for them.

So this is what you have for the availability of the McDojo/McDojang: 1)Ignorance of the consumer- which then continues on as students become instructors teaching the same compartmentalized techniques; 2) The quest for money so that more people are paying for less....and are satisfied with it; and 3) The use of organizations as barbed wire ties that keep insiders in and outsiders out...thus limiting exposure to what is being taught elsewhere that might pique curiositiy or awareness.

You wrap all three of these things up and you get a McDojang that increases in size and keeps aligning itself in ways to pay for itself and increase membership. In this easy come world, that means promising blackbelts in one to two years, a school that tests often and which may increase the number of belts with stripes for futher subdividing what is taught all in an effort to increase requisite testing fees associated with this policy.

Now this problem is not only with TKD, again as noted above, but with it's overwhelming presence how can they all be good and survive and not be McDojos? This was a question that was given to me by the owner of one McDojo that I visited.

In that school I saw on BB who had just received it kicking a bag. He looked horrible and when I asked how long it year was the answer. After I had practiced with these folks for my free invitational class and told them I had previous experience per a question directed to me.

The owner who did not show any technqiue said, if he didn't promote he would have "no business." If the MAs to you are only a business that is exactly what the student will receive....and think what all MAs are.


#152911 - 06/10/05 11:16 AM Re: TKD poll [Re: eyrie]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
I was once shown by a JKD instructor why you should never use an overhead x-block or even a raising block to block a knife (unless you really have no other choice). The knife hand is liable to slide down and slice the arm or wrist of the defender. No tendons; no chance.
See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

Supporting everyone saying "nuts to cancer"

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