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#152887 - 06/06/05 04:01 AM Re: TKD poll [Re: eyrie]
SANCHIN31 Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3783
Loc: Arkansas, U.S.

the X-block was explained to me as stopping an overhead strike from a staff/knife.

Some people still think that!!! The instructor at the Kempo and Gung fu school told me that.He's knew I am nidan in goju. He claimed to be 8th dan and have 10 other blackbelts!
I'll have to check that book out.
Skinny,Bald,and Handsome! Fightingarts Warrior of the year

#152888 - 06/06/05 04:12 AM Re: TKD poll [Re: SANCHIN31]
Bushi_no_ki Offline

Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 1669
Loc: POM, Monterey CA
I'm going to agree with you on this one Sanchin. I would never use the "x block", or upward cross block in such a situation. AKK actually has a technique that uses it for defending a stick attack, but I don't like it. Too easy to screw up, especially under that kind of stress, and we have so many other techniques that counter against the same type of attack.

#152889 - 06/06/05 11:18 AM Re: TKD poll [Re: eyrie]
TraditionalTKD Offline

Registered: 05/16/05
Posts: 68
Loc: Jackson, MI
Palgue sport poomsae? I have to disagree with you on that one. The Palgue forms were introduced before Tae Kwon Do ever became part of the Olympic movement. Perhaps you are thinking of the Tae Geuk forms.
The Palgue forms are much more traditional and focus on basic techniques. They are surely not designed to earn points.

#152890 - 06/06/05 11:28 AM Re: TKD poll [Re: TraditionalTKD]
Kintama Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Massachusetts
I thought the "Chonji" forms were the traditionally oriented ITF being originally established by General Choi Hong Hi.

This will clear up alot of misconception:

#152891 - 06/06/05 12:07 PM Re: TKD poll [Re: Kintama]
Eric4444 Offline

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 430
Kintama, I'm new to this board, and I live in Massachusetts as well. What area are you in? I live in New Bedford. There are two Taekwondo schools in the city. One is Kwon's TKD. They are definetly a Mcdojang. Fancy jumping kicks, 2 years for BB, "tea ceremonys" that kind of stuff. The other Tkd school is the one I attend. Gonsalves Tkd. We teach very practical techniques, low kicks, punching is considered just as important as kicking, we have joint locks, takedowns, its actually alot of Hapkido mixed in. Our founder is Master Joseph Gonsalves, I don't know if you've heard of him.
To subdue the enemy without fighting is the highest skill." ~ Sun Tzu ~

#152892 - 06/06/05 12:20 PM Re: TKD poll [Re: Eric4444]
Kintama Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Massachusetts
I'm in Western Mass. but I'm familiar with the NBedford area. I'm not familiar to TKD other than what I've seen watching classes, demos and competition stuff. so your area is a 50/50 chance then lol
I'm looking into TKD only to find out what went wrong with it. or, I should say, why the sport dojangs are advertising to the public as Self-defence. The non-sport dojangs seem to have the same ratio as Karate when it comes to mcdojo vs self-defense.
So, my conservative estimate is about 3 out of 4 US TKD dojangs are false advertising. They can't be designed for martial sport and claim self-defense. It's wrong and people are getting ripped off.

#152893 - 06/06/05 12:31 PM Re: TKD poll [Re: Kintama]
Eric4444 Offline

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 430
I completely agree with you. Tkd seems to have a bad reputation in the serious martial arts world. I've gone to watch demo's of some Tkd schools, as well as the other one in my city. Most schools there demo's contain things such as 720 spinning kicks, back flips, hand stands into kicks, it doesn't look like a martial art at all. I've talked online to many people who practice martial arts such as Goju Ryu, or Kenpo, etc. All of them immedietly assume I know nothing about real fighting when I say I do Tkd. That isn't true. There are still Tkd schools in the world that teach an actual martial art. The main philosophy behind what my school teaches is to keep your opponent away using kicks waist level and below, and if he moves in to use your hands, elbows, etc. We also teach takedowns, joint locks, how to escape from joint locks, as well as a few ground techniques when you reach red belt. I think we teach a pretty practical well balanced system. I mean, sure we do some point sparring too, but thats just for fun, its not our main goal. As for fancy high flying kicks, we dont do them. Although I will say, we open our demos with a black belt doing a jump side kick over 4 chairs breaking boards. However, that just seems to get everyones attention to come watch us.
To subdue the enemy without fighting is the highest skill." ~ Sun Tzu ~

#152894 - 06/06/05 12:50 PM Re: TKD poll [Re: Eric4444]
Foundation Offline

Registered: 03/21/05
Posts: 343
Hmm, am I just ignorant or are McDojo's quite rare in my area?
I'm taking Taekwondo classes where the owner (and half the time teacher) is a 6th dan black belt Korean of about 50 years old approved by WTF and he's a coach of the national competiting team. The club has several affiliations in the area. A BB is obtained in about 3.5-4 years.
Is this a McDojo? If it is all the clubs in my area are McDojos, if it isn't none are.

#152895 - 06/06/05 01:49 PM Re: TKD poll [Re: Foundation]
Dereck Offline

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10416
Loc: Great White North
Foundation, I don't think it sounds like a McDojo ... and to be honest who really cares if a person goes to a McDojo or not?

I had a similar discussion with my instructor and others on Saturday. He's heard it all before and knows that the WTF takes a bad rap and at one time he considered changing the name to Martial Arts as we are a blend of Taekwondo, Hapkito and Jujitsu. But then he thought why as he was proud of what he is and does and decided against changing it.

He even expressed his opinion on McDojo's. I can't remember it word for word but he basically said if people join up, learn something and come away with a good attitude then it is all okay. If everybody had a good attitude then the world would be a better place. Is that really bad?

I've known that my instructor was trained Taekwondo and Hapkito as one. I always assumed that he trained/trains Jujitsu as a black belt and brought this to our school to add to our training. After further discussions on Saturday he told me this wasn't the case. His Master taught it all and the reason he got his black belt in Jujitsu was more for business purposes as people want to see that a person has a black belt in an art before they will believe that they can teach it.

When training in Jujitsu, Kickboxing and Muay Thai he wasn't given much respect from those teaching once they heard he was from Taekwondo. But after he easily proved his skills he definitely earned it. This all boils down to his instruction from his Master. And his Master ... and others out there ... teach a complete system that covers punching, kicking, throwing, sweeping, grappling, etc. They are out there you just have to look for them.

Who cares if Taekwondo gets a bad name ...especially WTF. Not all schools are the same ... and the same can be said for any other art. Just be proud of who you are and what you are taking. You live your life for you ... not because of what others say. I would challenge any of these people who bash Taekwondo to come to my school and others. They would change their minds quickly.

#152896 - 06/06/05 01:52 PM Re: TKD poll [Re: Foundation]
Kintama Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Massachusetts
not necessarily. Remember, a mcdojo is all about money. A bad dojo is all about Ego.
McDojos are bad because they sell ego, and not the SD skills as advertised.
Bad dojos could have honest non-money hungry intentions but just don't have a clue and don't even try to get a clue about SD. usually, the sensei are content with the knowledge they have without trying to further their skills. (e.g. a lazy dojo)
If you are studying a style designed for sport and you are training for and doing competitions and the sensei is honest about SD non-effectiveness... it's cool and everyone is happy. If a dojo trains for sport and advertises self-defense...that isn't cool. people will take that for years before finding out that the sport they studied does not translate into SD training. Hopefully, they don't find out the hard way when they try doing head kicks to someone with a knife.
I assume people would react differently when they find out they have been studying neither 'traditional' nor practical self-defense. correct me if I'm wrong, because this is just an educated guess:
People that find out their dojo is non-self defense effective have the following reaction...
Some defend their dojo reguardless due to pride or loyalty. (probably most common)
Some will bring the topic up with their sensei who will convince them that after more years of training they WILL be able to use the training in SD situations.
Some quit and never take another MA.
Some quit and search harder for a good dojo.
Some continue anyway because they like the sport aspect.
Some continue anyway with the goal of opening their own business (dojo) someday.
Some refuse to look at how other styles train in fear they might not like what they will realize. (again, pride and loyalty)

Here is where the grey line is, and it's where many people feel justified calling their sport as self-defense: SOME techniques in sport are transferable to SD. If you get really good at throwing punches and kicks for competition it's alot better than nothing for SD right? Thats right, but you have to be aware of which techniques and when they are appropriate so you don't end up making the SD situation worse. In SD situations for example, spinning attacks are not a good idea...turning your back period is never a good idea. you might be all that in competition but I guarentee you are going down if you try a spin kick in a bar fight.

Anyway, my motivation is not's to inform and provoke questions enough for you to do your own research to really be honest and ask yourself if what you are learning is what you intended to learn. Lots of junk and sheisters out there... cavet empor, let the buyer beware.

Take care and keep your eyes and minds open.

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