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#152877 - 06/05/05 10:32 PM TKD poll
Kintama Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Massachusetts
What would you say the ratio is of TKD schools worldwide that are legit vs bogus (ie McDojang).

I have found a list of about 50 websites of TKD places in Massachusetts alone. out of that list, 35 showed obvious signs of Mcdojangism (very young BB, high prices, tournament acrobatics, etc, etc).

So using that rough estimate I have 35/50 which is about 70%. Looking around this immediate area using the phonebook, I find 4 TKD dojangs. one is legitimately a non-babysitting type setup. so that also fits pretty close to the 70% model.

Is it fair to say that someone will have 1 in 4 odds of finding a decent TKD dojang?

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#152878 - 06/05/05 11:16 PM Re: TKD poll [Re: Kintama]
SANCHIN31 Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3783
Loc: Arkansas, U.S.
I'd say the number is higher than that. We have four TKD schools in my area,all are mcdojo's.
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#152879 - 06/05/05 11:42 PM Re: TKD poll [Re: Kintama]
BuDoc Offline
The doctor will see you now

Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 1067
Loc: USA and Abroad
I don't want ot high-jack this thread, but... What is it about TKD that lends itself to McDojoism(is that a word??).

We all know there are Mcdojos of every style, but TKD seems to have a disproportionate amount (ref: 2005 Kintama/Sanchin31 survey).

What gives?

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Edited by BuDoc (06/05/05 11:43 PM)
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#152880 - 06/06/05 12:11 AM Re: TKD poll [Re: BuDoc]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
I did TKD (ooooh, 'bout 25 years ago). Good basics in block, punch, kick. But that's all there is to it. Most modern TKD schools are geared toward sport competition and tournament "fighting" (I use that word VERY loosely). Black-belt in 2 years or less. (I got mine in 2). You can skip belts if you're really "good" (which my sister did - TWICE!). When they changed the old hyung to the Plague series, I decided I had enough....

The only real TKD left I think are the old kwans (CDK, ODK, MDK) - ask oldman, he knows.

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#152881 - 06/06/05 12:35 AM Re: TKD poll [Re: eyrie]
TraditionalTKD Offline
Member

Registered: 05/16/05
Posts: 68
Loc: Jackson, MI
I would say at minimum, 75% of Tae Kwon Do schools are McDojangs. Not that the ratio in other arts is any different. It is not focusing on Olympic sport style that makes a McDojang, it is focusing on money, easy and too many belt ranks, poor technique and manners, fancy uniforms in class etc. By this measure, at least 75% or more of TKD schools in America are McDojangs.
By the way, the Palgue forms do not make a school a McDojang either. It was decided decades ago by the KTA that you could not be a proud TKD student while practicing Japanese forms. I happen to like the Palgue forms and think they make very good power.

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#152882 - 06/06/05 12:55 AM Re: TKD poll [Re: TraditionalTKD]
SANCHIN31 Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3783
Loc: Arkansas, U.S.
There are three goju schools in my area,none are mcdojo's.Mcdojo's aren't typical to goju,but I'm sure there are some.There is an aikido school it's ok,but you have to go to chicago to test past certain levels and it's in a gymnastics place,kind of mcdojoish.A kempo gung fu school,not a mcdojo.A Shorin-ryu school,not a mcdojo,but not a good school either.
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#152883 - 06/06/05 01:19 AM Re: TKD poll [Re: SANCHIN31]
Bushi_no_ki Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 1667
Loc: POM, Monterey CA
I'd say on a national average, at least 75% of MA schools are mcdojo/dojang. My area seems to be a little less "mc" (eg, the schools may be run for money, but you get fairly decent instruction in most of the schools around here). Even the TKD guys around here are good dojangs.

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#152884 - 06/06/05 03:23 AM Re: TKD poll [Re: TraditionalTKD]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
I'm sorry, but the moment it became an Olympic sport is the whole reason it is now a big money spinner.

And FYI, Palgue is sport kata, not SD oriented.

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#152885 - 06/06/05 03:29 AM Re: TKD poll [Re: eyrie]
SANCHIN31 Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3783
Loc: Arkansas, U.S.
Is palgue the gymnastics stuff?
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#152886 - 06/06/05 03:51 AM Re: TKD poll [Re: SANCHIN31]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
I don't think so. But I say this with the caveat that I haven't seen much of TKD outside of the Olympic context in the last 25 or so years.

Back in the 70's when I was doing it, we were still doing shorin-ryu forms (Pinan, Tekki etc.). If you look at the older forms (even the ChangHon forms), there are vastly more hand techniques in those forms. The later Palgue and Poomse have more kicking techniques, perhaps to more closely reflect the underlying philosophy that legs have a longer reach, and to perhaps make the art distinctly Korean in falvour.

But my feeling from doing the Palgue forms was that all the good stuff was taken out because no one really understood the grappling applications in the shorin-ryu forms. E.g. the X-block was explained to me as stopping an overhead strike from a staff/knife.

Rick Clark (CDK) does an interesting comparison of hand/foot techniques in his book "Martial Arts for the University".

Let us not forget, that Tae Kyon means hand and foot, not just foot.

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