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#152352 - 04/11/06 06:37 PM Re: 14 keys to understanding kata [Re: founderofryoute1]
oldman Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5884
Martin,
It is not a disappointment at all. I was cincerely interested to see if that was a factor in your process of developing of you art.

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#152353 - 04/11/06 08:31 PM Re: 14 keys to understanding kata [Re: oldman]
founderofryoute1 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/06
Posts: 88
Loc: Birmingham, UK
Ed

My objective is to understand kata. Framework, pigeon hole, call it what you will, but what makes any one set of constraints superior to any other set of constraints? I suppose if you remove all constrains then it is not possible analyse kata. However having too many makes your analyse bias. Therefore you should strip away as many constraints as possible until you have the bare minimum that allow you to analyse the kata, and that is best you can do. I guess my point is that the constraint that assumes that kata must be describing self defence could be stripped away without affecting ones ability of successfully analyse kata.

Mark

My old sensei Nathan Johnson certainly felt that Zen Buddhism was a factor in understanding kata. I felt that it clouds the issue because almost anything can be made to work in a ďZenĒ way. As far as I know he invented the idea that kata could contain double hand grappling techniques and since he influenced me, and I in turn influenced the other founders of Ryoute, I guess you could argue that Zen was a factor in the development of Ryoute.

I donít see any reason why a kata could not contain violence but I think its style would differ substantially from that of karate kata (generally speaking).

Martin
_________________________
Martin Clewett - Ryoute - Double Hand Grappling, Grip Grappling and Double Circle Grappling

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#152354 - 04/11/06 09:26 PM Re: 14 keys to understanding kata [Re: founderofryoute1]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
thats correct. as far as you know. Some seek out a knowledgable instructor...some take the path of creating a style based on what they don't know.

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#152355 - 04/12/06 01:30 PM Re: 14 keys to understanding kata [Re: Ed_Morris]
founderofryoute1 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/06
Posts: 88
Loc: Birmingham, UK
The best instructor for me, is me.

Martin
_________________________
Martin Clewett - Ryoute - Double Hand Grappling, Grip Grappling and Double Circle Grappling

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#152356 - 04/12/06 03:34 PM Re: 14 keys to understanding kata [Re: founderofryoute1]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
If nobody can teach you anything that you can't teach to yourself, then why are you here on this site? surely there is nothing anyone can offer to you.
All of your arguments have been from the viewpoint that you are correct....that tells me you are not so good of a teacher for yourself yet.

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#152357 - 04/14/06 09:30 AM Re: 14 keys to understanding kata [Re: Ed_Morris]
founderofryoute1 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/06
Posts: 88
Loc: Birmingham, UK
I didnít say that nobody can teach me anything that I can't teach to myself. This site has provided me with useful information. You yourself successful change my mind about taking a direction when it comes to analysis of kata. Of course Iím going to argue from the viewpoint that I am correct. As do you. I argue with myself on my own time and just because you donít get to see it doesnít mean I donít do it.

Martin
_________________________
Martin Clewett - Ryoute - Double Hand Grappling, Grip Grappling and Double Circle Grappling

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#152358 - 04/14/06 10:13 AM Re: 14 keys to understanding kata [Re: founderofryoute1]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
Fair enough. you did say 'best teacher' not 'only teacher'.

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#152359 - 04/14/06 10:52 AM Re: 14 keys to understanding kata [Re: founderofryoute1]
Joss Offline
Dragon

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 567
"The best instructor for me, is me."

Learning by one's self means learning from experience. The process of doing so is limited to trial and error. Try something, decide it's a mistake, adjust, repeat, adjust, repeat, on and on. You are the mouse, in the maze, looking for the cheese.

In some endeavors this is workable. Not so much in others. In some it is quite painful and, in others, lethal. Perhaps learning to make music with a guitar, in comparison to EOD (disarming bombs), would illustrate this.

The alternative is to pursue shortcuts by using the already existing experience of others and building on it. A teacher is simply a short cut to the trial and error method. Granting a sufficiently long and healthy life span, though, a person can reach knowledge either way.

To claim that the best instructor for one's self IS one's self, however, presents a problem of logic. The existance of an instructor presupposes the presence of the student... since there really can't be an instructor without a student. To be a student is to be ignorant. To be an instructor is to have knowledge to share. How can one person be both?

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#152360 - 04/14/06 09:05 PM Re: 14 keys to understanding kata [Re: Joss]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
Quote:

To be a student is to be ignorant.





That must be why Professor Kano began wearing a "double wide" white belt when he was promoted. We are all "ignorant" at some level, no matter how long we train. Professor Kano knew that he was a beginner on another level no matter how far he progressed.

To consider yourself as having "mastered" an art is only arrogance, for there is always another level to be developed. That is why traditional arts have such a diversity in applications, while having such similarity in technique "at some level".

If the best teacher for me is me, then there is a fool for the teacher and a fool for the student, for MA skills are developed between combatants. Unless you're schizophrenic, you're going to have trouble being all things to yourself.

I used to be schizophrenic, but now, I'm okay... and so am I...



edited to fix quote


Edited by MattJ (04/18/06 05:31 PM)
_________________________
What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

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#152361 - 04/14/06 10:13 PM Re: 14 keys to understanding kata [Re: wristtwister]
Joss Offline
Dragon

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 567
We are all...students.

Some have just studied longer than others.



"...MA skills are developed between combatants."

Well. Yeah. There is that too.

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