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#152342 - 12/15/05 05:29 AM Re: 14 keys to understanding kata [Re: SANCHIN31]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
bump
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#152343 - 03/30/06 05:13 PM Re: 14 keys to understanding kata [Re: BrianS]
BrianS Offline
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Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
boo ya!
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#152344 - 04/01/06 06:58 PM Re: 14 keys to understanding kata [Re: kenposan]
founderofryoute1 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/06
Posts: 88
Loc: Birmingham, UK
Iíd just like to point out three contradictions that he makes:
1. He says not to pigeonhole kata but he has already pigeonholed them as self defence.
2. He says all parts of a movement from the kata are significant but also says that the visual appearance is an irrelevance.
3. He says that these are keys to understanding kata but implies that all interpretations are valid.

Martin
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Martin Clewett - Ryoute - Double Hand Grappling, Grip Grappling and Double Circle Grappling

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#152345 - 04/10/06 12:46 PM Re: 14 keys to understanding kata [Re: founderofryoute1]
GuitarNinja Offline
Member

Registered: 03/17/06
Posts: 182
Quote:

Iíd just like to point out three contradictions that he makes:
1. He says not to pigeonhole kata but he has already pigeonholed them as self defence.
2. He says all parts of a movement from the kata are significant but also says that the visual appearance is an irrelevance.
3. He says that these are keys to understanding kata but implies that all interpretations are valid.

Martin




1) first and foremost karate = civilian self defense method, i think hes referring to pigeonhole as if not to say, this is always this, and this is always that, because it is everchanging.

2) every part of a movement has application, how it looks like in the kata is important, but what it looks like in actual application is irrelevant

3) using key guidelines to understand something more thoroughly is not the same thing is someones interpretation.

I find no inconsistencies in Ians work, I applaud him for his outstanding efforts.
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#152346 - 04/10/06 02:12 PM Re: 14 keys to understanding kata [Re: founderofryoute1]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
1. Thats not a pidgeonhole, thats a framework.
2. Meaning, the movements are fit to function in application, as oppossed to what looks visually or artisticly appealing. movements in kata are the ideal, but bad-guys don't always attack/react the way we want them to. - and there is the real challenge isn't it...fun stuff trying to understand principles well enough to adapt to real-time changes...even more fun when we have a knowledgeable instructor to prevent re-invention of the wheel or remove doubt what to use a wheel for.
3. Thats just being nice.

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#152347 - 04/10/06 07:21 PM Re: 14 keys to understanding kata [Re: Ed_Morris]
founderofryoute1 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/06
Posts: 88
Loc: Birmingham, UK

GuitarNinja
1a) Karate = Empty Hands
1b) If this is not always this and that is not always that and everything is ever-changing then you understand nothing.
2) How convenient!
3) The guide lines come from his interpretation.

Ed
1) Semantics Ed!
2) How convenient that kata donít resemble their application.
3) Whatís just being nice?
_________________________
Martin Clewett - Ryoute - Double Hand Grappling, Grip Grappling and Double Circle Grappling

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#152348 - 04/10/06 08:17 PM Re: 14 keys to understanding kata [Re: founderofryoute1]
oldman Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5884
Martin,
I noticed on your site that your classes take place at a
Bhuddist center. I don't know if you are a member of that organization. I do not want to pry or contravene forum rules but I am interested. If that is the case would that be one of the primary reasons as to why you do not seem to focus on the more violent possibilties of kata's potential?

Mark

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#152349 - 04/10/06 11:34 PM Re: 14 keys to understanding kata [Re: founderofryoute1]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
1. not semantics this time...it's fundamentals. either you see it or you don't.

2. If I teach you how to throw a frisbee straight ahead, will I also need to teach you how to throw one higher in the air?

3. I just explained this very point to my 12 year old today, so it's still fresh: by saying 'anything works'...it doesn't mean 'everything works'...of course there are good/sucessful and bad/unsucessful techniques. but since the person writing it doesn't know the audience who will be reading, they will just say something to include everyone. Imagine if he wrote 'do it my way, or you'll die trying yours'. lol

It's ok, laugh. my son thinks I'm a nut too. ....but he understood. and he doesn't even do Karate anymore -he got bored. now he and his bro do Aikido and have fun.

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#152350 - 04/11/06 04:49 PM Re: 14 keys to understanding kata [Re: Ed_Morris]
founderofryoute1 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/06
Posts: 88
Loc: Birmingham, UK
Mark

Sorry to disappoint you but Iím not a Buddhist, and Iím not opposed to violence either, I just donít think that kata describe violence.

Ed

1. Whatís the difference between a pigeon hole and framework. They both place constraints on what kata can be.
2. You might think that to be an appropriate analogy but I donít.
3. Oh now I understand you.

Martin
_________________________
Martin Clewett - Ryoute - Double Hand Grappling, Grip Grappling and Double Circle Grappling

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#152351 - 04/11/06 04:59 PM Re: 14 keys to understanding kata [Re: founderofryoute1]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6772
well...I guess it IS an issue of semantics since you moved it that way.

a framework is objective.
pidgeon holed is subjective.

My objective is self-defense...whats yours?

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