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#152263 - 07/26/05 04:57 PM Re: The Green Dragon Society Website [Re: Tienying]
Kempoman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/15/00
Posts: 1484
Loc: Houston, TX
Quote:

There are aspects of this Art, that is more dangerous than other 'cover' arts taught by teacher's of Chi Tao.




Although I think I understand what you are saying, I am not sure I understand the term 'cover' art. Does it mean a crude or rudimentary style like TKD?

Quote:

This is true for many traditional arts....and I must agree the purpose in the Website is luring...whereas mine would be just clarification of the phases.




Quote:

In later phases of traditional Chi Tao, one is taught to 'map' vital points while blindfolded or with the feet only.





So then these 'phases' would be similar to different 'trainings'.

Quote:

I can personally strike insertion points or vital points with percision without the benefit of sight.




Are you saying vital points as in 'eyes, throat, solar-plexus, groin' or as in tsubo?

I don't doubt that some engage in full contact fighting sessions. Hell I came up during the days of 'Texas Blood and Guts Karate' myself. What I find problematic is the need to make things sound more omnious and profound than they actually are.

Maybe somebody just got a little carried away with themselves on the website.

I must admit that I am having a bit of a time finding any information on chi tao (I realize I am being lazy and just googeling at this point) or its lineage.

You say it is based on the three pillars of Xingyi, Bagua and Taiji. What does that mean exactly? Just because something is circular does not make it anything like baguazhang nor something being linear make it like xingyiquan.

These systems have specific methods for developing and expressing power.

BTW where does Gao, Feng teach baguazhang and who did he study with? I am quite familiar with Li Zi Ming and several in his lineage.


Thanks for coming,

--KM
_________________________
Yeah, if you want to get dry-humped and dookie-licked.

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#152264 - 07/26/05 05:39 PM Re: The Green Dragon Society Website [Re: Tienying]
Kempoman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/15/00
Posts: 1484
Loc: Houston, TX
Quote:

On the night of April 23, 1970, he took part in the infamous "dojo war" that ended in the brutal stabbing death of his friend and student, Jim Koncevic, at the Green Dragon's Black Cobr training hall in Chicago. The tragedy left a profound mark on Keehan until his death from bleeding ulcers in 1975.




Actually the wiki article refers to a Green Cobra Hall. Not a Green Dragon's Black Cobra Hall.

???

--KM
_________________________
Yeah, if you want to get dry-humped and dookie-licked.

Top
#152265 - 07/27/05 06:19 PM Re: The Green Dragon Society Website [Re: Kempoman]
Tienying Offline
Newbie

Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 17

Although I think I understand what you are saying, I am not sure I understand the term 'cover' art. Does it mean a crude or rudimentary style like TKD?


-When I speak of 'cover arts', you are exactly right. Things like basic sil lum Ch'uan Fa and Ch'uan Li are examples of such arts. Not to make them appear lesser, just that they are utilized to orient students to the Gung Fu method.-TY


So then these 'phases' would be similar to different 'trainings'. Are you saying vital points as in 'eyes, throat, solar-plexus, groin' or as in tsubo?

-Well this depends on the particular animal style specialty, but like Tsubo training with implements, we are taught to use other senses to exploit vital areas. I am a eagle stylist and to that end I am taught to fight blindfolded. Simply put if you touch me and dont 'drop' me, as long as we are in contact you 365 vital points are mine. Unless of course you break contact or retreat....I am not omnipotent -TY


I don't doubt that some engage in full contact fighting sessions. Hell I came up during the days of 'Texas Blood and Guts Karate' myself. What I find problematic is the need to make things sound more omnious and profound than they actually are. Maybe somebody just got a little carried away with themselves on the website.I must admit that I am having a bit of a time finding any information on chi tao (I realize I am being lazy and just googeling at this point) or its lineage.

-The matter of the Blood matches is just something part of our heritage. But i will tell you no one is forced to attend or be involved. One can walk away an asst. instructor and have a great Gung Fu foundation WITHOUT having to attend. The part of not being able to find info on Chi Tao, is due to it having at least 4+ expounded names. This is due to its familial nature of teaching from its post communist revolution history. The art I have learned has been known as Wu Ch'uan Chi Tao since the mid 60's here in the US and is the core art of the Green Dragon Society since then as well, but again note their art respected variants of the Core as well. This is purely INTERNAL in nature becuase here Chicago many have known the style for years. Again check this forum and read the info from Manchu the moderator. Clearly there are 'others' that may misrepresent the green dragon as well. http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthre...+dragon+society -TY


You say it is based on the three pillars of Xingyi, Bagua and Taiji. What does that mean exactly? Just because something is circular does not make it anything like baguazhang nor something being linear make it like xingyiquan.These systems have specific methods for developing and expressing power.

-Well I agree, just becuase Kenpo has circular movement doesnt make it gung fu. But I am saying that the core aspects of the Art are readily identifiable as parts of these arts...not just what could be...but movements developed as the parent arts do. This bring me to another Chi Tao tradition of Adept learning complete foundations of Hsing I, Ba gua, and tai Chi. In my years, I have been taught the Honan muslim style of Hsing I, Zhang family Chi Gung, Omei spiritual sword, Ba Gua and both Chen/Yang tai chi. Does this make me greater than others? No. Does it make me better prepared than some? Well perhaps...since with this and my TCM I am taught to take a man apart and nearly put him back together. It is said in the Society that the Ba Gua adept follows their opponent while the Chi Tao Adept is followed by the opponent. Semantics? Perhaps. But i have fought in the max prisons and in alleys/clubs...usually with few scratches. Plus, my San Bao is getter stronger as I live...-TY


BTW where does Gao, Feng teach baguazhang and who did he study with? I am quite familiar with Li Zi Ming and several in his lineage.

-Gao Shifu teaches in Beijing and has travelled here to Chicago twice under special permission secured by us. He a proponent of Li Shifu's art and Liang Ba gua as well, favoring Li Ming. I will not go as far to even question his lineage stating here that he is well respected in his homeland. -TY

I greatly appreciate this open dialogue. Remember all training and accomplishment is an illusion as I have been told by my Chi Gung/Omei teacher...Zhang, Pui Yang.

XieXie Ni and Zai Jian

-TY
_________________________
The eternal tao is many paths to the same goal...here is the door. www.chitaogungfu.org

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#152266 - 07/27/05 06:25 PM Re: The Green Dragon Society Website [Re: Kempoman]
Tienying Offline
Newbie

Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 17
Quote:

Quote:

On the night of April 23, 1970, he took part in the infamous "dojo war" that ended in the brutal stabbing death of his friend and student, Jim Koncevic, at the Green Dragon's Black Cobr training hall in Chicago. The tragedy left a profound mark on Keehan until his death from bleeding ulcers in 1975.




Actually the wiki article refers to a Green Cobra Hall. Not a Green Dragon's Black Cobra Hall.

???

--KM




This was most DEFINATELY the Black Cobra Temple of the Society. Again, NOT something I am not proud of but the fact that Chicago martial arts was very volatile in the 60's/70's made this stuff happen. There was once 8+ GDS schools open during the &)'s...the Black Cobra was one of them on the North side of Chicago. Also note that the above was posted on the Bullshido site in answer to questions, I didnt hunt it down finanlly there are many that question Chi tao, some Gung Fu styles, and other arts. But the truth is that this art never failed me, i survive better than when all i had was my Kenpo as a teen. Am i saying that any art is better? No...but I am saying that there are superior teachers of arts/methods.
_________________________
The eternal tao is many paths to the same goal...here is the door. www.chitaogungfu.org

Top
#152267 - 11/04/05 03:21 PM Re: The Green Dragon Society Website [Re: Tienying]
Tienying Offline
Newbie

Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 17
I have attempted to PM Kenpoman. Can anyone with info on this : Li Ming Chi Tao Gungfu' based in Texas...contact me with info?

*XieXie Ni*
_________________________
The eternal tao is many paths to the same goal...here is the door. www.chitaogungfu.org

Top
#152268 - 11/11/05 10:16 AM Re: The Green Dragon Society Website [Re: Tienying]
Kempoman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/15/00
Posts: 1484
Loc: Houston, TX
Quote:

I have attempted to PM Kenpoman. Can anyone with info on this : Li Ming Chi Tao Gungfu' based in Texas...contact me with info?

*XieXie Ni*




I did not get a PM from you. Are you saying that there is now a Chi Tao school in Texas?

Scott
_________________________
Yeah, if you want to get dry-humped and dookie-licked.

Top
#152269 - 12/29/05 01:07 PM Re: The Green Dragon Society Website [Re: Kempoman]
Tienying Offline
Newbie

Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 17
I was told that there may be a variant school...known as Li Ming Chi Tao. If you can help me find it, i would greatly appreciate it. I want to see determine and discuss their Lineage. Thanks Kenpoman for any assistance that you may be able to provide. If anyone here knows of it, please pm me. Xiexie ni
_________________________
The eternal tao is many paths to the same goal...here is the door. www.chitaogungfu.org

Top
#152270 - 12/30/05 03:21 PM Re: The Green Dragon Society Website [Re: JoelM]
Landus Offline
Member

Registered: 12/28/05
Posts: 373
Loc: UK
Quote:

How can you kill somebody multiple times?




It is possible

Top
#152271 - 01/04/06 10:16 AM Re: The Green Dragon Society Website [Re: Kempoman]
Grayston Offline
Member

Registered: 12/07/02
Posts: 144
Loc: Essex, UK
Quote:

Originally Posted by chitaochuan
Go to www.greendragonsociety.com it gives a good description of chi tao chuan gung fu




Hmmmmm..... Some very odd claims....

Respectfully,
_________________________
Grayston "Not all Karate is the same."

Top
#152272 - 01/09/06 02:31 AM Re: The Green Dragon Society Website [Re: Tienying]
Savate Offline
Member

Registered: 10/23/04
Posts: 48
Loc: New Jersey
Does the Chicago Green Dragon Society have any linkage to the Green Dragon Studios in Akron Ohio, which is another closed door Studio?

Another question: does your school teach iron and poison palm training?

With respect!
_________________________
Joe B.

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