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#152253 - 07/16/05 09:09 PM Re: The Green Dragon Society Website [Re: Tienying]
Tienying Offline
Newbie

Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 17
[Quote]:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NO you don't have to beg or grovel for instruction.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Uh excuse me but..


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Snipped from the Green Dragon Society Website

A person has to call and go for an interview before a Master. If accepted, he is on probationary study. After his first Rank Test, he is accepted as a student on Probation, which lasts one to three years. After the student grades are passed, he must fight to be admitted into the Third Inner Circle of the "Temple." If he can pass through this array (he has until midnight, from dawn, and can try over and over as long as he can stand up)... he receives the first rank. He is trusted as a loyal, hardworking student, though he may be the equivalent of a Black Belt in Karate!!!!!!!!! Then he spends five to seven years in another type of Probation, this is to prove to a particular Master that he is worthy of the Higher or Internal Arts. While he may be trusted, honest, and hardworking, he must learn, appreciate, and sacrifice much, in order to make a Master feel like spending his precious time (taken from the Master's own self-developments) to teach this person.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



...I beg to differ.





Well I will start here. Since the late 50's this art has been this way. It is simply the way it is imparted. Not unlike many of the old Pais or family styles of old China. I will tell you now that this art is not one to make you a mindless sheep, but will take you through a series of 'cover' arts to help traditionally develop students. Many disagree with the old method, but it is ours & many other schools method of teaching.

I will share this though, I spent a few years of my life working inside a maximum security prison and the truths that my body was trained in, actually saved my life 3 times..in potentially lethal edged weapon situations. When I first began, I had a bad heart and asthma...through the study of Tai Chi and Chi Gung...with breathing methods...i am now healthier than I ever have been. This wasn't the result of cultish chanting or floating on air...but hard work and study. I have been exposed to TCM and herbology..with that skill I am able to assist many others.

The basis of this system is Wu Tang/Wu Dang in nature with aspects of the three internal pillars {ba gua/Hsing I/Tai Chi}.I have personally fought in the the matches since 1997 and I tell you my broken bones are proof that they exist even if you dont believe it. Also, they are NOT an exercise in brutally but a method of measure for the Adept of Chi Tao for it is our firm belief that padding and point sparring, teaches negative reactions and can hinder a proper response. Are we right or wrong? I think most of you will agree that it is NOT the path but the growth and result of walking it that matters. This has worked for us and many. Also, keep in mind that many groups do this sort of test, along with forms review and written examination. Many of them are met with negativity and judgemental responses, so they choose not to discuss them. I remember a time when I was upset over long stance drills and forms work, my Master looked at me and said, "Remeber...you actually pay the Society to make you do this willingly" That reminded me that no one is forced to walk thru the door shown to them....we always have a choice. just as you have a choice to openly listen to my words or to meet them with contempt. So ask away and I will try to answer. Please note that there are some aspects of this art that I can not openly discuss becuase I am honor bound not to. If you disagree with this stance, then do so...but understand I gave my word in this matter.

Ohh btw, if you want some insight on the history, look up the misadventures of Count Dante as is taken from the wikipedia. Before you read it, I want to state that this incident was a great shame irriegardless of Master dante's misgivings. Life was lost and it greatly changed how we dealt with the world thereafter. Read on:

On the night of April 23, 1970, he took part in the infamous "dojo war" that ended in the brutal stabbing death of his friend and student, Jim Koncevic, at the Green Dragon's Black Cobra training hall in Chicago. The tragedy left a profound mark on Keehan until his death from bleeding ulcers in 1975.

Take care and Zai Jian


Edited by Tienying (07/16/05 09:22 PM)
_________________________
The eternal tao is many paths to the same goal...here is the door. www.chitaogungfu.org

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#152254 - 07/16/05 11:10 PM Re: The Green Dragon Society Website [Re: chitaochuan]
SANCHIN31 Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3783
Loc: Arkansas, U.S.
Quote:

I won't start a argument on this forum with someone as smart as KEMPOMAN.Yes there are blood matches. No GREEN DRAGON SOCIETY is not a cult. NO you don't have to beg or grovel for instruction. KEMPOMAM you insult me and my art and then you want me to explain it to you.You have it all analized and you are free to belive what you want.Oh SANCHIN31 maybe you should reread that funny bs again seeing you got your ass whipped with the system you study.

Have a nice day




I'm sorry,I didn't realize there was a system that was unbeatable. No,I didn't get my 'ass whipped'. There were no strikes thrown incase you didn't read that.
I too,insult you and your 'art' if you can call it that with a straight face.It is all the things that Kempoman exposed it for.Feel sorry for you if you were so naive as to be dupped into it.
_________________________
Skinny,Bald,and Handsome! Fightingarts Warrior of the year

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#152255 - 07/17/05 12:39 AM Re: The Green Dragon Society Website [Re: SANCHIN31]
Tienying Offline
Newbie

Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 17
Just for clarification...i am not chitaochuan (hence why i was upset over the language he or she used...i will try to determine who this was since it sounds like a student grade response for which i will apologize for the insult]...I should have made it clear that I am me and have my own understanding of martial morality behavior and 'yes' my Chi Tao is a proven Art with history here in the US from the 50's. I can prove this of course and my purpose here is to discuss the Art and not to argue but have constructive dialogue:)


Edited by Tienying (07/17/05 01:08 AM)
_________________________
The eternal tao is many paths to the same goal...here is the door. www.chitaogungfu.org

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#152256 - 07/17/05 10:15 AM Re: The Green Dragon Society Website [Re: nekogami13 V2.0]
Fisherman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/16/03
Posts: 1656
Loc: Colorado, USA
Quote:

"Chi-Tao Ch'uan is the closest to Pa-Kua. Outwardly they are both the same, but inwardly they are different."-GDS website

So it's bagua, whats so secret about that?




Uhhhhh, no. That deffinately is NOT Bagua.
_________________________
Chris Haynes

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#152257 - 07/17/05 10:58 AM Re: The Green Dragon Society Website [Re: Fisherman]
Tienying Offline
Newbie

Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 17
Quote:

Quote:

"Chi-Tao Ch'uan is the closest to Pa-Kua. Outwardly they are both the same, but inwardly they are different."-GDS website

So it's bagua, whats so secret about that?

A point in their favor is that they at least are advertising that they will be conducting a few seminar's of taijiquan, xingyiquan and baguazhang with mysterious masters from china. Odd that the names of the masters (Yang and Gao) are very famous names of older (and deceased in the case of Gao) internal teachers of these arts.

ie Yang taijiquan and Gao style Baguazhang. Weird.


Uhhhhh, no. That deffinately is NOT Bagua.




If you dont mind, can i ask how exactly are you quantifying your statement? Ba Gua...in it's definition is simply the 8 trigrams in application...while moving naturally through the universe. I have personally learned both Li Ming Ba Gua under Gao, Feng Sifu of Beijing for the last 5 years, studied Wu Tang Ba Gua at the Huashan temple, and Chen/Yang style tai chi...all in the Orient. I have heard from these teachers that Chi Tao moves like many of them...as it should since as I said above...the Art was founded on the 3 internal pillars of Ba Gua/Tai Chi/Hsing I.

Again, if anyone would please read my posts, it would be apparent that i am asking for constructive conversation. I welcome disagreement, however I make it a point to avoid ignorant critisms if I lack the information. No Chi tao isnt Ba Gua or Hsing I...but I will say that given the multitude of family variations of the Art propegated by the students of Dong hai Ch'uan Shrfu....it is possible for Ba Gua to be found in many places.


Edited by Tienying (07/17/05 04:47 PM)

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#152258 - 07/18/05 04:17 PM Re: The Green Dragon Society Website [Re: Tienying]
RazorFoot Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/01/04
Posts: 2064
Loc: Seated at the computer, DUH
Gentlemen, I realize this thread has its shortcomings and there are many debatable issues here but I ask that we concentrate on those issues and less on insults. I would ask that of ALL the participants in this thread. If we can not maintain a constructive and benficial conversation, I will have no choice but to close this thread.

Scottie
_________________________
"The greatest way to live with honor in this world is to be what we pretend to be."

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#152259 - 07/18/05 09:24 PM Re: The Green Dragon Society Website [Re: RazorFoot]
Tienying Offline
Newbie

Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 17
Xie Xie Ni RazorFoot
_________________________
The eternal tao is many paths to the same goal...here is the door. www.chitaogungfu.org

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#152260 - 07/19/05 05:53 AM Re: The Green Dragon Society Website [Re: Tienying]
MAGr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 1147
Loc: London, home: Athens
I dont think people are bashing the art. People are bashing (and quite rightly so) the web site. You cannot claim that each phase is more deadly then the previous and more secret. That is just false advertising. And all that mysticism, serves nothing than capitalist ways. There should be honesty not mysticism, there should be clarity and transparency not probation periods. Like all McDojos, we are not bashing the art they teach but the way they teach it and promote it. Maybe your place is an exception and only promotes it in a McDojo way, but teaches it in a legitimate way. That is still unacceptable. I understand that everyone wants to sell, but if you ask a MAist what he thinks of your website, what do you expect him to say? Seriously have youread it? Its ridiculous some of the things it says.

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#152261 - 07/19/05 09:20 AM Re: The Green Dragon Society Website [Re: MAGr]
RazorFoot Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/01/04
Posts: 2064
Loc: Seated at the computer, DUH
Yes, and I agree that the claims and representations made there are quite unrealistic to say the least. I have no problem with people expressing their opinion about the website. My request is that we do not let the feelings for the informaion on the website spill over into an attack on individuals stating opinions here on the forum pages. State your views on the issues and the discussion but do not attack the people presenting the information. Fair enough?

Scottie
_________________________
"The greatest way to live with honor in this world is to be what we pretend to be."

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#152262 - 07/19/05 03:18 PM Re: The Green Dragon Society Website [Re: RazorFoot]
Tienying Offline
Newbie

Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 17
'You cannot claim that each phase is more deadly then the previous and more secret. That is just false advertising'

Well here I have to disagree abit. There are aspects of this Art, that is more dangerous than other 'cover' arts taught by teacher's of Chi Tao. This is true for many traditional arts....and I must agree the purpose in the Website is luring...whereas mine would be just clarification of the phases. In later phases of traditional Chi Tao, one is taught to 'map' vital points while blindfolded or with the feet only. I can personally strike insertion points or vital points with percision without the benefit of sight. Is this dangerous? Yes. Secret? well 'no' ...especially since it takes years or training most feel unnecessary to do these things...and plus, I just told you . I agree that there is a serious mix of mysticism and traditional training on that site. I will be tracking down the master's there and try to deal with that. Not for anyone here...just becuase I believe it necessary for our times today.

Well as I stated the website is NOT my avenue. I just came here as a proponent of this Art. It's history in this Country is very open and researchable. There are many past and present Adepts of Chi Tao that focus on the Art and not the reported esoteric nature of its Past. not all of them train at the green dragon society. With that said, maybe we can just talk about its intrinsic nature and the styles pro's & cons?


Edited by Tienying (07/19/05 03:27 PM)
_________________________
The eternal tao is many paths to the same goal...here is the door. www.chitaogungfu.org

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