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#151734 - 06/02/05 01:44 AM Commercial Programs
Fletch1 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/21/04
Posts: 2218
Loc: Florida
How many of you have instructor level training & expereince in commercially available programs for LE or Security?

For example:

Royce Gracie's LEO Instructor course

Tony Blauer's SPEAR Instructor course

Monadnock Baton Instructor

PPCT Instructor

etc.
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#151735 - 06/04/05 08:52 PM Re: Commercial Programs [Re: Fletch1]
ziggytkd Offline
Member

Registered: 03/28/05
Posts: 90
Loc: KY USA
Although I don' have any training in any of those, I want to become an instructor in PPCT. I think that its a good program from what i've seen, and it has stood the test of the law. Which in todays LE is important.

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#151736 - 06/05/05 03:33 PM Re: Commercial Programs [Re: ziggytkd]
Fletch1 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/21/04
Posts: 2218
Loc: Florida
Cool.
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#151737 - 06/18/05 09:17 PM Re: Commercial Programs [Re: Fletch1]
loki Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/11/04
Posts: 844
Fletch: I have found that to many certifications may acctually go against a person in a court of law. In a self defense situation, using the level of force latter, a judge may find a student of the Bushi 'equipped' to handle the situation. Having said this, the judge sentence the student for exssecive force.

I have taken commercial courses, & have used variables letters in my name. (Shamefull I know) (But paranoid).

Most courses were not of the national level.

I have trained with the Late Sensei Shintani & many of his top students.

One of my instructors is now one or the only lisensed Renshi in North America.

Because of my unique approach, & looks I would always 'play' the bad guy in some of those commercial programs. I was the padded one they punched & kicked.

Kobun

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#151738 - 06/19/05 10:06 PM Re: Commercial Programs [Re: loki]
Fletch1 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/21/04
Posts: 2218
Loc: Florida
Well, that is part of the responsibility you incur when you train. That being, when you have the knowledge and capability to control someone without injuring them, you are obligated to do so if another reasonable person with your training and experience would in the same circumstances.

Another responsibility you have is to be realistic in your estimate of your skills and educate people about what you can or cannot be expected to do in the unpredictable chaos of a fight.

Sometimes we are our own worst enemy when we brag about what we can do in training. People believe it and your reputation takes on a life of it's own.
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#151739 - 06/23/05 10:44 PM Re: Commercial Programs [Re: Fletch1]
loki Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/11/04
Posts: 844
Quote:

Well, that is part of the responsibility you incur when you train. That being, when you have the knowledge and capability to control someone without injuring them, you are obligated to do so if another reasonable person with your training and experience would in the same circumstances.

Another responsibility you have is to be realistic in your estimate of your skills and educate people about what you can or cannot be expected to do in the unpredictable chaos of a fight.

Sometimes we are our own worst enemy when we brag about what we can do in training. People believe it and your reputation takes on a life of it's own.




Example one: Ottawa,Canada
A over fifty year man walks into his convenience store. It is after hours,dark & he is by himself. Two younger men attack him,armed with knives & high on some drug.

Olderman,is a student of the Bushi, Jujutsu to be exact. He controled the situation & gave the two druged men a lesson.

He immediatly took out the first man out. (Knocked him out)
As the second man closed in for the kill, the older gent captured the knife holding arm,& broke it.

It was unfortunate,because of the events that followed: The broken arm severed some of the knife weilding mans nerves & he lost some of the motion in his hand.

The judge decided that no criminal charges would be laid on the store keeper.( Thank god, but it was still close)

Yet in a civil law suit, the store keeper was ordered by the court to pay damages to the knife holder.

Reason for this was that the expert in Jujutsu should of been able to defend without causing permenent injury.

After all we must have some responsibility, yes but it still scares me that it may come down to a judge that was not there when all hell broke loose. Yet he will make a decision on the basis of my training, & other factors of course. Yet the training will have a deep impact on his decision.

As for your comment on training. I agree, after years of training with edge weapons, I still am very cautious of what I instruct.

As for guns, I tell them the truth, that they make big holes in people ...

Kobun Out
Take care out there

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#151740 - 06/24/05 04:04 AM Re: Commercial Programs [Re: loki]
Fletch1 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/21/04
Posts: 2218
Loc: Florida
My point exactly. The idea that what you practice in a dojo setting realistically represents what you will be able to do in a violent encounter is a strong motivator to train. It goes toward your confidence and belief that you can succeed and survive, if you "train" for it.

Somewhere along the line however, what you can do in training in a controlled environment became blurred with what you can reasonably be expected to do in the chaos of a violent encounter. Who is really to blame? The martial artists for perpetuating the myth that they can magically and safely disarm knife and gun wielding thugs, or the Judges and Juries that believe them and become convinced that such tactics are reasonable and rational, when your head is on the chopping block?

Another reason to avoid fantasy training.

The connection to commercial programs? Any "certification" should be weighed against a reasonable standard. A certification is not a guarantee and people who say otherwise are doing themselves, their students and their communities a great disservice.


Edited by Fletch1 (06/24/05 04:08 AM)
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#151741 - 07/02/05 08:44 AM Re: Commercial Programs [Re: Fletch1]
otobeawanker Offline
Member

Registered: 06/08/04
Posts: 192
Loc: CANADA
I've trained in the LEO ISR matrix and the Tony Blauer school.
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#151742 - 07/02/05 04:24 PM Re: Commercial Programs [Re: otobeawanker]
Fletch1 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/21/04
Posts: 2218
Loc: Florida
Crazy Canadians.
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