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#151492 - 06/01/05 03:19 PM Botte Segretes
Yunsung Offline

Registered: 12/20/04
Posts: 111
Loc: Bossier City, LA, USA
Botte Segretes are generally (and loosely) defined as an attack that your opponent doesn't know how to parry. Examples are the Nyzkiem cut employed by Hungarian Saber fighters, and the Swallow Cut used by Japanese swordsmen.

Have any of you discovered a particular move that is difficult to parry, and thus perfectly suited for an attack on an opponent?
Justice is only useful when power is useless.-Socrates, the Republic

#151493 - 06/01/05 03:26 PM Re: Botte Segretes [Re: Yunsung]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
First of all... What the heck is a "swallow cut"?

[edit] To answer my own question, I believe what he is referring to is Tsubame Gaeshi, a technique attributed to Sasaki Kojiro who was said to be so fast with this technique that he could cut a bird out of the air midflight. Apparently it was not enough to defeat Musashi.[/edit]

Generally there are some attacks which are difficult, but never impossible, to counter depending on the circumstances when the cut is initiated. If there was one attack which was positively undefeatable, everyone would be using it by now and winners or losers would be determined by who could pull it off first.

Edited by Charles Mahan (06/01/05 03:33 PM)
Iaido - Breaking down bad habits, and building new ones.

#151494 - 06/01/05 03:48 PM Re: Botte Segretes [Re: Charles Mahan]
Yunsung Offline

Registered: 12/20/04
Posts: 111
Loc: Bossier City, LA, USA
That's indeed what I was referring to; thank you for clarifying. (I couldn't for the life of me remember Kojiro's name. )
Justice is only useful when power is useless.-Socrates, the Republic

#151495 - 06/01/05 08:27 PM Re: Botte Segretes [Re: Charles Mahan]
jerry_mings Offline

Registered: 04/16/05
Posts: 5
Loc: Hemet, CA, USAA
Well, Charles, you've done it again. Your answer(s) evoked so many associations that there's no way I can reference them all.

Ah the "swallow cut" - The last of the Musashi trilogy staring Tojiro Mifume. The opponent is talking to the "love interest" when he makes a sudden move and resheiths and the love interest is saddened by the death of the swallow. Lots of historical inaccuracies in the trilogy, but what can you expect in a movie?!?

At the height of European dueling there were many schools offering to sell the "SECRET MOVE". Of course no one ever claimed the money back guarentee

To make a football analogy...

John Madden: "Those short little J-Hook passes are almost impossible to defend."

True, but if you do defend them you leave yourself open for the long pass down the field to score.
Jerry "The Dinosaur" Mings

#151496 - 06/02/05 08:40 AM Re: Botte Segretes [Re: Yunsung]
Ktulu Offline

Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 97
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
I thought the swallow cut was named that because it mimicked the movements of a swallow? I do not know this technique though or what it looks like so I wouldnt know why it is called the swallow cut


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