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#151363 - 06/01/05 07:24 AM Bad rep
MAGr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 1147
Loc: London, home: Athens
Why do kung fu artists have such a bad rep when it comes to competition.
I ve had to defend my style numerous times from peoploe that say it is innefective, because there is no proof that it works, because we dont enter tournaments, because our techniques are too deadly.
The problem is, is that they are right!
Our reputation in competitions, and i am talking about fighting not forms, is appauling.
Ok, we cannot use jabs to the eyes and throat strikes, but there are a lot of techniques that could be used, and kung fu practitioners can learn howe to fight with rules and be good!
Maybe its because the chinese philosophy which is intertwined with the arts, says that we should not use our kung fu to fight and that we do not need to prove ourselves.
I agree, in a street fight, i dont care, i ll walk away and let the other person think that i am a pussy.
But surely there are benefits to fighting with other styles.
And fighting properly.
It would show the weakness in kung fu and help us improve it, it show the weakness in their respective art also, and help them improve it. There are a lot of benefits to competitions so why dont we enter, and why do we not train in a more realistic way.
For example my school has introduced full contact sparring and even though you are only allowed to use a fraction of the techniques availiable, my kung fu has improved immensly.
Forms will help your fighting,
Fighting will also help your forms!
I would like to hear people's opinions on this, and i am not trying to bash anyones methods, just trying to improve my kung fu.

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#151364 - 06/01/05 11:19 AM Re: Bad rep [Re: MAGr]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Many people think of the strictly form based Chinese arts (Northern Wushu, Tai Chi, etc.) which are generally practiced with no/little contact. Kind of difficult to take them seriously when there is little application of what gets taught.

Kung fu, like any other art, is as good as you make it. Practice with intensity, and it will be intense. Many other styles suffer the same fate as well, not just Kung Fu.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#151365 - 06/01/05 11:26 AM Re: Bad rep [Re: MAGr]
imcrazy Offline
cereal killer

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 492
Loc: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Well first the fact that everyone thinks that your style is ineffective is a good thing. Why? because then when you are put into a self defence situation and and have to fight back, the person(s) you are fighting will not expect you to be any good, thus giving you the element of surprise. Also b/c they will not have seen your specific art demonstrated in a tournament on TV they won't really know what to expect. Where as there is a good chance they may have watched UFC and say if you took BJJ, would almost know right from the start you are going to try to bring them to the ground (so they are more careful of this).

Training with different styles can be good, but if your goal is SD then you are better off trying to recreate possible SD situations. Most thugs on the street won't know martial arts but rather "their own style" aka swinging hands wildly and tackling.

Should you really want to gain experience fighting other styles however, you do not need tournaments. Simply invite a different school to train with you, and thus spar with them (doesn't have to be a competition). I know its probably harder than it sounds, but an option.

Now the big problem with tournaments is that some people go to them to win and show off. This can create some big egos in your school and ruin the learning enviroment. Also some people will start to train for tournaments then and will neglect practicing techniques that our outlawed at them, but still very effective for SD.

And to top it all off, even if kung fu artists went to tournaments people still would proclaim that it isn't effective, b/c what they would see is just a watered down form created to fit the rules.
_________________________
The greatest learning and understanding is found in hardship.

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#151366 - 06/01/05 11:50 AM Re: Bad rep [Re: imcrazy]
MAGr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 1147
Loc: London, home: Athens
To be honest, i dont do MA for self defence. There have been very few instances in my life where in needed to protect myself or others. My goal is to learn kung fu. I believe that appart from the SD benefits that full contact sparring has to bring, its a chance to test whether your techniques would really work, of course its a watered down version but its better than nothing.
You are right though that maybe that would lead to training just for competitions, but as long as the teacher keeps a clear sight on his goals and students there shouldnt be that problem.
Would you agree that there is a misrepresentation of kung fu in competitions?
The last time i saw a kung fu competitor was this idiot jumping around and feinting!! Needless to say he lost.
I dont care that people say to me that my art is ineffective, like you said that is to my advantage, but surely there would be benefits to the kung fu community and development of the art if there were some more serious entries into competitions.
My knowledge is limited to wing chun but i am aware that this applies (maybe even more so) to other shaolin styles.
techniques were developed through testing in battlegrounds,well.... if today's battleground is the ring then development of the arts surely would need to be tested there, otherwise how can you be certain it works?
I dont get into streetfights, and i dont plan to just to test out a technique!

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#151367 - 06/01/05 04:09 PM Re: Bad rep [Re: MAGr]
SANCHIN31 Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3783
Loc: Arkansas, U.S.
MAGr,
I really do think that there are many effective styles that do not compete in competitions.I've seen karate guys,kung fu guys,and alot of other styles that didn't cut it in he ufc.Does that make them ineffective? No.Does the public see it that way? Yes,unfortunately.But they only see the art within the limits of the rules and the confines of the cage.
Train as 'live' as you can with your partners and test your skills there.Don't worry about the rest,I'm sure you know this already.
Competitions can't teach you all the other aspects of the arts,there are alot more than just fighting.
_________________________
Skinny,Bald,and Handsome! Fightingarts Warrior of the year

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#151368 - 06/02/05 01:29 AM Re: Bad rep [Re: MAGr]
nekogami13 V2.0 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/10/04
Posts: 2643
Loc: Texas, USA
Don "the Dragon" Wilson-WKO world kickboxing champion for three consecutive years. He was also world light heavyweight kickboxing champ for 12 years straight, and holds ten other titles in three different weight divisions- original art,Pai Lum Kung Fu.
_________________________
I'm sorry, I was just imaging what you would look like with duct tape over your mouth

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