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#150940 - 05/30/05 04:08 PM If you would be so kind...
Toubabo Koomi Offline
Newbie

Registered: 04/29/05
Posts: 8
Let me start off by apologizing if I have aggravated anyone already. Now, to the matter at hand: I would appreciate it deeply if someone with Shaolin Kung Fu experience would take a look at the link to a site I am posting and give me an opinion of whether or not it is a money scam or not. Having no experience with this branch of Martial arts, I cannot determine myself. Any help is appreciated. thank you in advance. Here is the link: http://www.nolashaolin.com/martialartsneworleans.html


Edited by Toubabo Koomi (05/30/05 04:09 PM)

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#150941 - 05/30/05 05:48 PM Re: If you would be so kind... [Re: Toubabo Koomi]
DefenselessChild Offline
Member

Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 103
I can't really tell if it's a money scam from their website. One would have to observe a class to see how it really is. The site itself is very presentable though.

The only thing I could find that was strange was the fact that it's Chinese Kung-Fu and TaiChi but it used some Japanese terminology. Sorry I can't be of more help.

Edit: Alright after reading the story of their grandmasters I'm way more skeptical. Seems like McDojo theory and farie tales in some places.


Edited by DefenselessChild (05/30/05 05:51 PM)

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#150942 - 05/30/05 10:13 PM Re: If you would be so kind... [Re: DefenselessChild]
imcrazy Offline
cereal killer

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 492
Loc: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
One word... "testimonials". Whenever I see that word I immediatly think McDojo. If the school was a good school there would be no need for them. Its only when a school feels they need to draw more people, and hence make more money, by convincing the public that this place "changed my life", or "now I can see again!". These are over exagerations, but you get the point.

Also this statement, right on their front page screams McDojo:
Quote:

We'll make you a deal
You take care of the Food, Drink and Procreation and Shaolin-Do will help you with the rest. You start by learning self-defense, facing personal fears and feeling stronger mentally and physically. As a Shaolin-Do student you will automatically earn the respect of hundreds of your fellow classmates and the others in your life that witness your transformation. By reaching for and achieving goals you never thought possible your self-esteem will soar. Finally, you will carry the power you feel as a martial artist to every segment of your life. You will be a Shaolin-Do black belt 24/7. It will be the strength that defines your life and determines your success in all of life's arenas.




Right from the start they are promising a black belt, this = very bad. Also I find it kinda funny that they appear to use gloves when sparring, or at least during tournamants. I don't take shaolin kung fu, but I would think that it would be very difficult to preform many of the attacks (especially open hand ones) with these.

Also yet another thing:
Quote:


1. Hunger, Thirst, Procreation
2. Safety & Security = Shaolin-Do
3. Community, Belonging, Being Loved = Shaolin-Do
4. Self-Esteem = Shaolin-Do
5. Self-Actualizing (discovering your identity and purpose in the world) = Shaolin-Do





They seem to be saying that only "Shaolin-do" is the answer to all of these (except #1). Sorry but they are obviously trying to convince people that their MA can only do this. Not any martial art in general. In other words they want your money.

There are other things, but I'm tired of typing.

Basically check out the school for yourself, ask them good questions when you are their, and observe how the classes go. Don't completely rule them out, be I would be skeptical.
_________________________
The greatest learning and understanding is found in hardship.

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#150943 - 05/30/05 10:29 PM Re: If you would be so kind... [Re: imcrazy]
Toubabo Koomi Offline
Newbie

Registered: 04/29/05
Posts: 8
You both have been extremely helpful. I thank you both for your considerate advice. I will keep it in mind when I am checking this place out. Thank you again.

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#150944 - 05/30/05 11:59 PM Re: If you would be so kind... [Re: Toubabo Koomi]
Bushi_no_ki Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 1667
Loc: POM, Monterey CA
That place is screaming mcdojo. As was pointed out, the use of Japanese terminology, the mixing of Chinese and Japanese in the name (as far as I can tell), the use of Japanese Gi, the whole thing is a money scam.

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#150945 - 05/31/05 05:38 AM Re: If you would be so kind... [Re: Toubabo Koomi]
SANCHIN31 Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3783
Loc: Arkansas, U.S.
If you take a look at the instructors page they are all 1st black or less.The most experienced is a mega 6yr veteran! Some three yrs or less,pathetic,they haven't learned the basics yet but already instruct. MCDOJO!!!
_________________________
Skinny,Bald,and Handsome! Fightingarts Warrior of the year

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#150946 - 05/31/05 09:32 AM Re: If you would be so kind... [Re: SANCHIN31]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Shaolin-do is a well known McDojo.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#150947 - 05/31/05 10:26 AM Re: If you would be so kind... [Re: MattJ]
Toubabo Koomi Offline
Newbie

Registered: 04/29/05
Posts: 8
Thank you all for your kind advice.

Okay, I have found another site and have taken into consideration all that you have said. Upon looking over this site, I could not find any of the giveaways that were apparently so obvious in the last school. However, I still trust more experienced martial artist in this subject matter. So, if you would be so kind once more. I am terribly sorry if this is violating any of the forum rules. Just tell me and I shall never do it again. In ignorance, here is the link: http://www.shaolin-world.net/


Edited by Toubabo Koomi (05/31/05 11:00 AM)

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#150948 - 05/31/05 04:45 PM Re: If you would be so kind... [Re: Toubabo Koomi]
DefenselessChild Offline
Member

Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 103
Don't worry so much about offending everyone. What your asking is perfectly alright.

This site looks a lot more credible than the other one. The master's credentials are a lot more realistic and believable than the other one's while still remaining impressive. This place doesn't use Japanese terminology or equipment either. All the healing and fighting arts seem to be strictly Chinese. I would definitely check out this place over the other one. But, to truely determine whether or not to go there I'd have to attend a class.

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#150949 - 06/01/05 12:45 AM Re: If you would be so kind... [Re: Toubabo Koomi]
Bushi_no_ki Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 1667
Loc: POM, Monterey CA
Most of us are happy to answer such questions when asked properly.

As to the second school, I recommend checking it out. It still looks like it adheres to the "mcbusiness model", but if the prices are decent, and the arts are taught properly, and you like it, it's still a good school, just the master and instructors are trying to make a few bucks teaching. And the masters credentials are awesome.

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#150950 - 06/01/05 03:36 AM Re: If you would be so kind... [Re: Bushi_no_ki]
Rico Offline
Member

Registered: 05/23/05
Posts: 28
Ive herd nothing but bad news (on forums) from the first school you linked to and after looking at the site myself I feel that they are right.... A grandmaster that looks like chewbakka? a teacher that incorperates breakdancing into his teachings? The whole package screams Mcdojo.

The second school looks better but theres very little info about the school itself with no pictures of traning or students. Also the teachers credentials seeem a bit... far fetched or over stated.

Anyway worth checking out but be very careful of Shaolin in general even in China at the Shaolin temple they dont teach real kung fu anymore, just forms and Sanda (chinese kickboxing) and they turn out people at 18years old that call themselfs master...

Rico.

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#150951 - 06/01/05 12:26 PM Re: If you would be so kind... [Re: Toubabo Koomi]
MAGr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 1147
Loc: London, home: Athens
I would agree with everuone about this, the first link looks like the biggest pile of....
The second looks more credible.
Keep in mind that most people can anly be good at one or two things, if the school teaches 500 then they are probably crap at all of them.
Find a school that teaches a specific style, that should be step number one.
Secondly go check out the students, the quality of the school is usually reflected in its students, and its easier to engage a conversation with them and they are more revealing. If they think they are invinsible super enlightened monks, then they are probably dissilusioned cult-prone followers, and their teacher also!
Breakdancing! seriously!

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#150952 - 06/01/05 12:43 PM Re: If you would be so kind... [Re: Rico]
Toubabo Koomi Offline
Newbie

Registered: 04/29/05
Posts: 8
First off, I'd like to thank everyone for being such a great help. Secondly, I'm now skeptical about Shaolin in general being taught as something else. I'm only guessing that even if I did ask him if he taught Traditional Shaolin Kung Fu, he wouldn't tell me the truth. Is there any possible way to determine if it is authentic or not as I am interested in learning actual Shaolin Kung Fu. Thank you in advance.

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#150953 - 06/01/05 12:49 PM Re: If you would be so kind... [Re: Toubabo Koomi]
Toubabo Koomi Offline
Newbie

Registered: 04/29/05
Posts: 8
My apologies for posting twice in a row. I have decided to E-mail the second school with some questions. If any of you would have some suggestions, they would be greatly appreciated. Thank you very much.

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#150954 - 06/01/05 09:29 PM Re: If you would be so kind... [Re: Toubabo Koomi]
Rico Offline
Member

Registered: 05/23/05
Posts: 28
Like you said yourself they will probably lie if you only ask questions but its a good place to start and if they answer well id go check it out in person. Remember to talk to students though not just the teachers.

Most Shaolin these days is just like performance Wushu with endless drilling of forms with corections only made to make them look nicer not to be effective. They also teach Chinese kickboxing for the practical side... but thats not real kung fu in the traditional sense.

Id say if the school does no body conditioning (hard qi gong) and dosent drill or even explain form application in two man practice etc then its not worth going and falls under the modern forms style of teaching.

So ask about application and conditioning and the value of forms etc. Ask why they have super low impractical stances and ask if these are combat effective etc.. see how they respond.

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#150955 - 06/01/05 10:47 PM Re: If you would be so kind... [Re: Rico]
Toubabo Koomi Offline
Newbie

Registered: 04/29/05
Posts: 8
Thank you, Rico, for your suggestions. I will take them into consideration. One thing I did notice, however, about the second site was that they teach Shaolin Kung Fu and Sanshou (Sanda) seperatly. This got me thinking about how they could actually pull off Chinese kickboxing and Chinese kickboxing disguised as Shaolin Kung Fu in the same school. It seems to me that this school might actually teach traditional Shaolin Kung Fu, but I am unsure. I will let the more experienced guide me. Thank you again, Rico.

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