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#150836 - 06/06/05 01:57 PM Re: defense against jabs [Re: eyrie]
KiDoHae Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 06/29/04
Posts: 999
Nice post eyrie,

Unfortunately I have not seen that fight. What you described though is more or less how it seems to work.

On a few other occassions I think I've made pains to describe (as humbly as I can) that, it is "the principle and not the technique" although in not so many words. I usually describe actaully applying a lock of some type, for instance, as "secondary" meaning that I personally don't set out to do it - but if the opporunity happens to be there - say if you've effectively trapped or killed a strike - then, by all means I'll put it on them.

That is a "street wise" philosophy that was a concious part of my hapkido training. Once a pratictioner had firmly grasped the principles, the "pure" technical aspect presented in training a technique was somewhat less important.

I think we're saying about the same thing.

Edited by KiDoHae (06/06/05 03:37 PM)

#150837 - 06/06/05 09:50 PM Re: defense against jabs [Re: KiDoHae]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
It's difficult to have a meaningful discussion if we all agree, but it is nice to know that some of us share similar points of view.

As my aiki teacher always said "forget technique".... which strangely is never a problem for me, coz as soon as he stops demonstrating and we break for practice, I always invariably ask my partner, "what technique are we doing? I attack me, we'll work it out..."

Whilst technical forms are useful for teaching the basic shape of a movement, it is necessary to lose the visual aesthetics of the form, and look to the *feeling* of the form.

#150838 - 06/07/05 07:33 AM Re: defense against jabs [Re: CdkwaN]
charlie Offline

Registered: 08/13/04
Posts: 187
Usually in Aikido dojo's the defences that are practiced are aginst UPA or unified power of attack or commited attack-whole body- these attacks are easier to take control of the uke's centre. in our school your attacks has to be sincere-we practice the classical strikes like chudan tsuki, yokomen uchi and shomen uchi- but we also practice jodan tsuki, kizami tsuki (jab) and mae geri defences.

I think that a fast jab is real hard to do something with due to the snapping action, drawing back. I think that movement has a big part to play- as long as you make sure that jab does not connect then that's a good defence no matter how you stop it, getting out the way, token block, pressing block whatever or perhaps put one in yourself-atemi. having said that I have seen Steven Seagal do a nice kote gaeshi from a jab in his video a path beyond thought.

the book of 5 rings says (in so many words) if they attack mountains you attack sea's so I supose this principle applies to jabs.

#150839 - 07/08/05 06:44 AM Re: defense against jabs [Re: CdkwaN]
Intrepidinv1 Offline

Registered: 04/20/05
Posts: 308
Loc: NC, USA
I'm going to take a stab at the jab. I'm no expert in Aikido so my terminology may be a little weak but here you go.

Most people jab with there left hand so I'll approach it from that angle.

As the jab comes toward the face use the right hand to parry the jab towards your left side. As you do this step in with your left foot as you throw your left arm violently into the right side of the opponents neck. Simultaneosly strike the neck in a brachial stun and perform a reaping type throw (as in Judo) or forcefully drive the subject down (as in Aikido). Before the opponent can recover quickly place him into position for a pin or, if he is very violent you may have to kick him while he's down.

This would take some time to perfect but I have used similar defense in sparring and grappling situations.

Hope this helps.

#150840 - 07/08/05 08:04 AM Re: defense against jabs [Re: CdkwaN]
Chanters Offline

Registered: 06/16/04
Posts: 559
Loc: Manchester, UK
I don't know how aiki this is but we learnt it in class. As the jab comes in, irimi, drop to your knees and atemi right where it counts. You have to move swiftly particularly if the person executing the jab has decent boxing skills, they're very quick on their feet, so if you miss you're in trouble! I suppose a boxer's lower region is a better target to go for as they only really focus on defending their upper region. On the other hand if the jab is coming from a kick boxer it's probably not the best idea to drop as you'd be in range of a knee strike.

Another possibililty would be to irimi to the dead side of your opponent at the point of the jab and redirect the strike by pushing at the point of the opponents elbow. This may temporarily disturb their balance giving you a chance to take it and execute a technique. Again, you'd have to be swift.

#150841 - 07/08/05 08:16 AM Re: defense against jabs [Re: Chanters]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
For that reason, and the fact that your opponent might be baiting you into the drop, so that he can respond with a knee to head, is all the more reason I would favour a somewhat deep entrance into the dead side, and controlling the shoulder of the jabbing arm, with the ultimate aim of controlling their center. But that's just me....

From there, whatever "technique" is obvious will happen.

#150842 - 07/31/05 07:26 PM Re: defense against jabs [Re: CdkwaN]
AttorneyJohn Offline

Registered: 07/31/05
Posts: 14
Loc: Houston Texas
In a word, "Distance." In a Japanese word set, "mai ai."

The aikido person wants to stay out of the boxer's effective distance if at all possible, and not llow him within reach of the jab. The aikido person isn't going to want to exchange punches with a boxer, EVER, so why would he stay within range of the lead hand? Move away.

It sounds simple, but it isn't. You are most correct about trapping a lead hand flicking jab with a controlling technique, that's for certain. But, if you are out of range, the boxer knows it, and has to close with you to throw the punches, and hopefully, when he or she closes, that is the opportunity that you have to do something. I won't kid you though, there is a lot of problems with standing toe-to-toe witha boxer.

So..... don't stand there. There's no law that says you have to, you know.

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