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#150816 - 05/30/05 05:21 AM defense against jabs
CdkwaN Offline
Member

Registered: 05/28/05
Posts: 28
Loc: Indiana
For any Aikido practioner: As my knowledge of Aikido is very limited perhaps someone could answer this question for me.
All of the Aikido that I have seen is when someone does a long slow punch at the Aikidost, in which he is able to easily grab the wrist of the puncher and twirl him around before throwing him. How does your skill come into play when the punch is a very fast jab, as that thrown by, lets say someone who is trained in fighting like a boxer?
Just hard for me to imagine catching that punch, or do you just avoid, and use some other tactic?
Thanks for answering!
Cd

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#150817 - 05/30/05 07:13 PM Re: defense against jabs [Re: CdkwaN]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
Cd,

First, you have to understand that my Aikido experience is limited, however the Aikido I learned may not be similar to your experience. Also, that there are lots of Aikido out there with different types of emphasis...some of which are not for actual utility but more for personal development.

However, aikido is a MA that stems from several jujitsu styles and when done for utility has reality based instruction. Many of these use atemi for unbalancing the opponent. Atemi is just striking (and there are many kinds of atemi to unbalance)...in some schools this is just done perfunctorily, but where I studied for a short time, the instructor had a lot of boxing experience and therefore the aikido techniques would many times rely on a backfist or even an elbow to the face, prior to setting up the throw.

I am primarily a karate guy, but could immediately see the utility of this practice. Opponent throws a jab and you sidestep and throw a backfist...now here's the hard part: You have to determine how your opponent reacts to the strike, so that you can set up your conter and throw.

Aikido takes a long time to understand and use. Generally, these excercises were done slowly. I might add though, that I have never seen a jab used in a real fight. My experience has always beent that it was something more committed.

-B

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#150818 - 05/30/05 09:03 PM Re: defense against jabs [Re: butterfly]
CdkwaN Offline
Member

Registered: 05/28/05
Posts: 28
Loc: Indiana
Butterfly,

Thank you for your answer to my post about the jab defense in Aikido. You see a new dojo had opened in a town about 25 mi. from me and I stopped in one day recently to check it out. The new owners were very polite, and offered me to stop in for a lesson anytime I wanted to. I did stop in for an aikido class one eve. and did find it fun, different, and still confusing, all 3 wrapped into one. I found myself wanting to block the punch comming toward me, but by the end of class was somewhat getting the concept of the art. I suppose going from a Korean based art, to a Japanese style made me feel like a fish out of water. Anyway, I did get the feeling also, since the instructer was partially Japanese decent, that the concept like you said, takes many many years of discipline to perfect!
respectfully, Cdkwan

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#150819 - 05/30/05 09:30 PM Re: defense against jabs [Re: CdkwaN]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
ma-ai

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#150820 - 05/30/05 10:12 PM Re: defense against jabs [Re: butterfly]
kusojiji Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 648
Loc: kokokokokoko
Quote:

Opponent throws a jab and you sidestep and throw a backfist...now here's the hard part:





Jabs must be alot slower in your world than mine!



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#150821 - 05/30/05 10:33 PM Re: defense against jabs [Re: eyrie]
Nagamaki Offline
Member

Registered: 04/07/05
Posts: 76
Loc: Southeast Asia
Quote:

ma-ai




thats a good answer
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#150822 - 05/31/05 12:34 AM Re: defense against jabs [Re: Nagamaki]
Strider_Hanzo Offline
Member

Registered: 02/17/05
Posts: 150
Loc: Norwalk, CA 90650
I've recently taken up Ki-Aikido but i'm not familiar with the terminology yet... What exactly is ma-ai??
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#150823 - 05/31/05 01:36 AM Re: defense against jabs [Re: Strider_Hanzo]
Nagamaki Offline
Member

Registered: 04/07/05
Posts: 76
Loc: Southeast Asia
Quote:

I've recently taken up Ki-Aikido but i'm not familiar with the terminology yet... What exactly is ma-ai??





it means distance between you and the opponent. Ma-ai is true to kenjustu, naginata and ect. The one who controls this ma-ai can control the situation. in encountering various partners differing in hieght or reach in aiki practice the ma-ai changes,also same with doing aikiken and aikijo, so this distance with the combination of timing is one of the most important factor in delivering aiki waza.
a jab can be pretty useless if cant reach. If the opponent tries to close the distance by delivering a jab, it can be effectively countered by moving in and breaking the center to execute a any particular technique.

i hope it helps
_________________________
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#150824 - 05/31/05 01:39 AM Re: defense against jabs [Re: kusojiji]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
Kusojiji,
It's a little harder than just sort of stepping away from a jab. (I understand your consideration.) I guess I should preface and say again that I consider myself a karate guy. However, I have been lucky enought to practice with a former amatuer boxer and one of my sempai was on the U.S. Boxing team that went to Calgary in the 1980s. I say this since some people segregate techniques to one style of fighting and generalize (comparmentalize) others.

And I will say this, not all karate and not all Aikido and not all any martial arts are necessarily the same as the ones you might have experience with. By the way, I hope you don't read this as coming with any irritated tone in my writing (typing leaves a lot te be desired when compared to the nuance of spoken words), because I am not intending this. I am basically trying to get across here that I have experience with good jabs.

When others speak of Ma-ai, and I generally go with my eperience with karate, it is less that the jab is thrown and you are defending against a really fast punch, but that you pick up on the intent of the jab by reading body languange and can sort of feel that this type of technique is coming. Think of a boxer slipping the jab, but instead of countering with a hook, you might choose to throw your shoulder into the opponent (this is atemi also) and go on to see if you can capitalize on your opponent's momentum change.

I hope this helps. Aikido, like other MAs, if practiced long enough will hopefully aid you in reading your opponent. This is essentially what I was trying to get across here.

Regards,
-B

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#150825 - 06/01/05 12:13 AM Re: defense against jabs [Re: butterfly]
SeiserL Offline
Newbie

Registered: 04/17/04
Posts: 14
Loc: Marietta, GA
Todd James just did an excellent seminar and demonstration on this exact subject at the Aiki Expo in Los Angeles. Truly a great weekend of instruction, insight, and inspiration. Anyone else attend?
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We don't rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. KWATZ!

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