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#149058 - 05/25/05 06:18 PM New student asking for help.
EternalStudent Offline
Stranger

Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 4
I am a teen in highschool and I am attempting to teach myself some general Shaolin Kung-Fu techniques. I do understand this will be very difficult because I am trying to self teach an art that has been perfected for centuries before my time, but seeing as I am broke and people in Tennessee do not feel the obligation to teach for free I have no other choice. I have just started trying to correct myself on the art of 30 punches. Just messing around I notised that I find it extreamly hard to strike with my hand in Dragon Palm. Is it because it is not made for strikeing or that I am doing it wrong? I do understand you would have to see me to correct me, but I was wondering if there were any general things that I might be doing wrong.

I am also using the hardening technique Iron Fist (I am also aware that this will take many years and cannot be done overnight.) Does anyone have any suggestions for the next level up after I have been punching rice for about a month?

I don't mean to sound like I think I know what I am talking about because of the few things I do know, I know I don't. I was just not trying to come across as a kid that wanted to get strong in a week and beat someone up. I am actually doing this to get a better sence of concentration, coordination and peace.

Thanks.

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#149059 - 05/25/05 06:28 PM Re: New student asking for help. [Re: EternalStudent]
Strider_Hanzo Offline
Member

Registered: 02/17/05
Posts: 150
Loc: Norwalk, CA 90650
The main thing you're doing wrong is not seeking qualified instruction... If you can get a job and earn the money... that's what i did...
_________________________
Your BJJ skills are no match for my Shim Bun Do skilllzz!! *Swats at groundfighter*

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#149060 - 05/25/05 06:31 PM Re: New student asking for help. [Re: Strider_Hanzo]
EternalStudent Offline
Stranger

Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 4
I know this. The only thing around me is Tae Kwon Do, and no offence to anyone, but I dislike that style for personal reasons that I would rather not go into.


Edited by EternalStudent (05/25/05 06:32 PM)

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#149061 - 05/26/05 04:01 AM Re: New student asking for help. [Re: EternalStudent]
BaguaMonk Offline
Member

Registered: 12/18/04
Posts: 404
Loc: DALLAS TX BABY
Well the most basic thing I can reccomend that you might be able to do at home, is basic punching.

Sit in a horse stance, as low as possible, firmly rooted. Make sure your alignment is correct (internal aligntment), butt tucked in, spine straight, headtop suspended slightly, toungue on roof of mouth. Sit in this stance, and put your hands either at your hips or close the the groin. Begin punching with your shoulders relaxed, elbows relaxed, and extended without fully being straight, nor too bent. Turn your waist fully, in the beginning, you want to exaggerate and make sure your waist goes as far as it can. Make sure your punches explode outwards. Breathe in through your stomach, not chest, and make sure to exhale on punches. Also, tense your fist really hard (only during practice) only if your fist is correct, so you develop hard fists through punching.
_________________________
Truth comes from the absolute stillness of the mind...

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#149062 - 05/26/05 09:14 AM Re: New student asking for help. [Re: EternalStudent]
Nord Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/12/05
Posts: 7
Loc: Colorado, USA
Do you have any previous martial arts training? No offense but it sounds like you are trying to run before you can walk. As a beginner myself, I would forget about Iron palm until you can get a competant teacher. You will just screw yourself up.
As for teaching yourself, work on basics. I like the idea of punching from the wide horse. If I were you and wanted to get the most out of home training, I would spend time on conditioning, stretching, basic punches, kicks and moving in your stances. Hopefully you can practice in front of a mirror. This can really be a big help. Video taping is also a very good idea. Stretching should include shouders, wrists, hips etc... I would spend most of your time on the stances and learning how to transition and root yourself.

These are the things that will give you the power in Kung fu and hopefully it will be enough for you to work on until you can find a teacher. Advanced techniques are worthless if your fundamentals are weak. Even at a basic level, this is very intricate stuff. There are countless ways to do it wrong and only one way to do it right.

P.S. What style are you studying?

Best of luck,
Nord

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#149063 - 05/26/05 04:43 PM Re: New student asking for help. [Re: EternalStudent]
Talimas Offline
Member

Registered: 02/03/05
Posts: 131
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
If you are unable to find a teacher and would honestly like to learn a martial art, goto the library and read everything you can about the style you wish to self teach. Do this before you start trying to physically training yourself. Get a good understand about the philosophy of the style. After you have done that then start working on the basics, which you should mentally be rather familiar with at that time. By no means is this near actually having a teacher assist you, but at least if your mind knows first your body will be less likely to tell it the wrong things.
_________________________
Some things move, most things breath, anything can be destroyed.

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#149064 - 05/26/05 05:26 PM Re: New student asking for help. [Re: EternalStudent]
Kempoman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/15/00
Posts: 1484
Loc: Houston, TX
Quote:

I am also using the hardening technique Iron Fist (I am also aware that this will take many years and cannot be done overnight.) Does anyone have any suggestions for the next level up after I have been punching rice for about a month?




This is disturbing. Not only should you not be doing this without a qualified instructor of Iron Palm/Iron Fist your information is incorrect. It does not take years (although I guess it could if you don't train it properly) to accomplish this training. Also if you are not using a dit da jow you will damage your hands and perhaps cause other problems which I will not get into.

Why don't you try to find a studio or teacher that might allow you to do a work/study program. If you tell me where you are located I might be able to help you locate an instructor that will work with you.

Really please stop doing the Iron Palm/Fist training (or at least e-mail me privately to discuss).

Kempoman


Edited by Kempoman (05/26/05 05:27 PM)

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#149065 - 05/26/05 07:00 PM Re: New student asking for help. [Re: Kempoman]
EternalStudent Offline
Stranger

Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 4
I am reading a book called "The Art of Shaolin Kung Fu" by Wong Kiew Kit. It goes into pre-iron fist. I am not doing anything harsh to myself like breaking and resetting my knuckels, just thrusting my hands in rice about 100 times a night. If any of you finds this harmful I would gladly stop.

And that you to all your suggestions and help. I take all advice seriously.

Kempoman, I live in just south of Nashville, Tennessee (USA).


Thank you all again.

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#149066 - 05/26/05 07:13 PM Re: New student asking for help. [Re: Kempoman]
Bushi_no_ki Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 1667
Loc: POM, Monterey CA
My advice is to go with a combination of practicing the most basic stuff, while you learn everything you can at the library. Learn the basic front punch, the basic front ball kick, the knife-edge kick, and rear kick, and the four basic blocks. Focus on the four basic stances, horse stance, neutral bow (feet a little wider than shoulder width, toes pointing at about a 45 degree angle, back heel lining up with front big toe) forward bow (from a neutral bow, turn your hips forward, and straighten out your back leg) and reverse bow (from a neutral bow, turn your hips all the way back, and straighten out your front leg). Practice the four basic blocks, inward (raise your clenched fist, and then throw the block across your body to in front of your shoulder, about two feet from your body) outward (bring your clenched fist over by your opposite hip, then throw the block by coming up and back toward your shoulder, should be about 1-2 feet from your body) upward (from your hip, basically throw an uppercut type punch, but go up to your head and snap out your elbow. Your fist should be higher than your elbow and your arm should be about a foot out from your head.) and downward outward (bring your fist up to your opposite shoulder or ear and throw down back across your body to just past your leg, about 1.5 feet out from your body.) These are the most basic moves, and if you can find pictures or diagrams, or someone to show you how, practicing those and perfecting them until you can find a good school to study in will serve you well.

About the stances, different styles use different stances, but most stances are similar to what I described, so if you end up in a Japanese or Okinawan style instead of Chinese, for instance, you will not really have to "relearn" anything, just make slight adjustments.

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#149067 - 05/26/05 09:59 PM Re: New student asking for help. [Re: Bushi_no_ki]
EternalStudent Offline
Stranger

Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 4
Thanks man.

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#149068 - 05/27/05 09:49 AM Re: New student asking for help. [Re: EternalStudent]
Kempoman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/15/00
Posts: 1484
Loc: Houston, TX
Quote:

I am not doing anything harsh to myself like breaking and resetting my knuckels,




Man I should hope not. This is not involved in Iron Palm or Iron Fist Training.

Quote:

just thrusting my hands in rice about 100 times a night. If any of you finds this harmful I would gladly stop.




Sounds like a basic external hand conditioning method. Still I would recommend that you get some dit da jow to rub on the hands before and after the training.

Quote:

Kempoman, I live in just south of Nashville, Tennessee (USA).




Great, I'll check with the people that I know in the area and post something here.

Kempoman
_________________________
Yeah, if you want to get dry-humped and dookie-licked.

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#149069 - 05/27/05 06:19 PM Re: New student asking for help. [Re: Kempoman]
BaguaMonk Offline
Member

Registered: 12/18/04
Posts: 404
Loc: DALLAS TX BABY
Careful with Iron fist, Iron palm.

WKK's methods are OK, but if you truly want an "Iron fist" It takes alot more than that, and is hardly necessar nowdays (do we need to kill or punch through walls).

Practice basic stances. You should be able to find them in many gong fu books. The "cat" stance as many call them (or empty, Xu Bu), the horse stance (ma bu), gong bu (or bow-arrow stance), Pu Bu (lower stance), and Xie Bu (crossed stance). Also try the crane leg stance (leg up, 45 degree up), and hanging leg stance in there for balance and flow purposes. Sit in them at first for a while, and keep back straight abdominal breathing. Then practice moving from one to the other. The stance should stay LEVEL (no bouncing up and down), unless you are jumping from one to a single leg stance (even then its better training to stay level). Don't be stiff, rigid, and slow, flow from one to the other until you can flawlessly transition from on into the other without too much effort, and deliberation.

Wubu quan is a great wushu form with all the basics. I would recommend that, you can find it in alot of the basic wushu vids. Make sure to use full twisting waist power in every punch, make sure to never stiff, relaxed, but never too bent.
_________________________
Truth comes from the absolute stillness of the mind...

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#149070 - 05/28/05 01:52 AM Re: New student asking for help. [Re: EternalStudent]
ButterflyPalm Offline
Enigma

Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 2637
Loc: Malaysia

Take a look at the Martial Arts Talk thread and a topic "Advanced punching" started by mike88nbd.

The general rule on training is NOT to damage any of the nerves, in the hands especially. Hence the use of chi gung and medicinal ointment ("dit da jow" --- cantonese pronunciation) It is an ancient warning that damaging the nerves in the hands will affect your eyes in a negative way. Thrusting your fists / fingers into rice / beans / iron beads etc with no proper guidance is extremely dangerous, because what you see in books, videos is just the act, but maybe not the precaution these people take to protect their hands.

There were guite a few good basic methods posted by members before the recent overhaul of the system, after which some of these were "deleted" during the process. A pity.

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