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#148524 - 05/24/05 05:41 PM To Kata or not to Kata
Kempoman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/15/00
Posts: 1484
Loc: Houston, TX
So here is a question for the group.

Can kyusho/tuite effectively be taught without the study of kata? Now I said effectively
because I know that it can be taught without kata but what do you end up with in the end if you
remove kata? I ask this question because I notice a trend in this direction (DSI, Kyusho International)
where the training is more technique based rather than principle based.

Thoughts?


Kempoman
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#148525 - 05/24/05 06:08 PM Re: To Kata or not to Kata [Re: Kempoman]
Kosh Offline
Member

Registered: 03/04/05
Posts: 302
Loc: Novo mesto, Slovenia
Hmm, an interesting question.
I think both can be taught effectively, at least to some degree. In my opinion it also depends on the person learning it.

Personally, I prefer to have the kata also. I don`t like memorizing techniques, which is what I would have to do if I had no kata. Now, if I don`t know or forget how to do a technique, I just go look in the kata.

I think it`s easier to learn kyusho, tuite with the kata. Also without the kata you always need a partner to train with.
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#148526 - 05/24/05 06:37 PM Re: To Kata or not to Kata [Re: Kempoman]
BuDoc Offline
The doctor will see you now

Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 1067
Loc: USA and Abroad
Nice topic Kempoman. Sure to generate alot of discussion.

I am a firm beleiver in kata. A staunch traditionalist, if you will.

Having said that, I do beleive kyusho can be taught effectively without kata. I don't, however think that it can be passed indefinately without kata of some sort.

Kata, in my opinion, is the collective works for transmitting a system. Sure, one or two high level guys can teach kyusho completely and effectively, but what about the ones they pass it to?

By using kata, and repeating the principles in that kata over and over, it can help to ensure that nothing is left out.

Short answer: Yes Kyusho can be taught effectively without kata. No, it is not an ideal way to do it. And I don't think DKI(as a collective) is anywhere near the level of applying it to start a breakthrough transmission method.

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#148527 - 05/24/05 06:41 PM Re: To Kata or not to Kata [Re: BuDoc]
BuDoc Offline
The doctor will see you now

Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 1067
Loc: USA and Abroad
Apologies. I have confused DKI with KI and DSI.

I know nothing of Kyusho International or DSI or their training or teaching methods.

Perhaps they have a better idea. I will reserve comment.

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#148528 - 05/24/05 07:16 PM Re: To Kata or not to Kata [Re: Kempoman]
oldman Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5884
In my experience with DKI and KI both held seminars teaching based on the assumption that the people attending would integrate Kyusho into their own art and practice. I guess if they didn't practice kata they could still get something out of it. It could be taught as frosting or cake. It depends on your appetite.

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#148529 - 05/25/05 09:28 AM Re: To Kata or not to Kata [Re: oldman]
JohnL Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/24/03
Posts: 4309
Loc: NY, NY, USA
If people say that PP techniques are found in kata and you recognise that kata is merely a number of techniques perormed in a sequence, then there would appear to be no logical reason why you shouldn't learn PP techniques by performing basic techniques.
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#148530 - 05/28/05 04:51 PM Re: To Kata or not to Kata [Re: JohnL]
underdog Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 1270
Loc: Mansfield, MA U.S.A.
You could just learn pressure points via the techniques. I don't regret learning kata. It's a big world and people seeking pressure point education come with the gamut of native and acquired skills in fighting. I'd say minimally, you have to have skills. How you got them is another matter. It would be hard to apply the teaching if you didn't have the skills to apply the information that is given to you. The same would apply to a person in a good martial arts school who is not sufficiently advanced to use the information. I'd say you don't necessarily get one before the other either. As my skills get better, I find more ways to use the pressure points. Sometimes I learn a new technique from the pressure point study and that makes my skills better. It goes both ways.
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#148531 - 05/29/05 02:20 AM Re: To Kata or not to Kata [Re: Kempoman]
SANCHIN31 Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3783
Loc: Arkansas, U.S.
It can be learned without kata,but I believe it is easier to learn and remembered with kata.
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#148532 - 06/21/05 05:57 PM Re: To Kata or not to Kata [Re: SANCHIN31]
Cesar Offline
Newbie

Registered: 06/12/05
Posts: 15
Loc: new york
I firm believer in kata. Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't that how it was done in the past? techniques are in kata. Seems like which came first kata or technique(chicken or egg)

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#148533 - 06/24/05 08:27 PM Re: To Kata or not to Kata [Re: Cesar]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
I think it this modern age where more and more people are no longing practicing kata, there isn't really a choice as to whether or not we teach the pressure points without Kata. If we don't find other effective ways of teaching the points, then a huge number of people are going to miss out on them. Hopefully we'll have a massive switch to retro training methods where Kata will become more en vouge again (hell, flares came back into fashion so anythings possible! ), but with events such as the UFC and other MMA stuff making the uneducated look upon the traditional arts like musseum pieces, I think the secret is to provide options to both camps. Kata for the tradionalists and maybe some drills for the others?

Just my two cents worth!
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#148534 - 07/01/05 04:34 PM Re: To Kata or not to Kata [Re: Gavin]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
I believe just like life the martail arts is setup so that the more you study the more you learn. And yes a lot of people are study fighting/MA without kata but as they get older all they have is past glory and contenders hopes. The past/present setup gives the young and old things to ponder and work toward. These accu points are taught at the advance level for a reason, we don't want a bunch of Intermediated mined MA with this knowledge, going around using these skills just for fun.

As for setup training drills to apply these techniques, I often thought of that. But its almost like reinventing the wheel they already exist in the bunkias of the katas.

I also use kata to weed out the bullies and bad boys that just want to learn to hurt people/fight better, I don't mind that but after kata training they are moldable and open for input. Theres is just something about self perefection/competeing against yourself thats humbling. They see through attempting to know & alignment the M,B & S they have more confidance, control and power. So they have less urges/needs to want to fight.

Have any of you tried to create your own kata based on your best fighting techniques or these acu points. Its almost redundant its all been done almost. And again why reinvent the wheel unless you can improve upon it. It ain't that easy, when its already layed out.
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#148535 - 07/24/05 12:10 AM Re: To Kata or not to Kata [Re: Kempoman]
Demonologist437 Offline
Member

Registered: 03/03/05
Posts: 159
Loc: Hodunk, Illinios
First, Kenpoman, I would LOVE to know what motivated you to ask this question.

Then, I would want something to drink, mix a gatorade, and reply OMGoodness YES you need kata!

Kata is where EVERYTHING comes from. All you techniques are in kata. All the pressure point locations and striking methods are in kata. Complex concepts like energy, elemenatl stance, special points, yin-yong, and all kinds of advanced striking methods are in kata. Without being taught kata, you would stagnate because you have nothing new to draw on. PLUS you would have no idea WHERE your technique came from. Not so much "Well because kata X has X movement like that, it HAS to be performed like that exactly and ONLY." but just to get an idea of how the movement portion goes so you get a better picture of how the movements work outside of the technique and have a more solid idea of where the movements are coming from. If you see X performed in kata, it gives you a better idea of what you are to do to the person, rather than watching sensei locked up with some big nasty guy over-and-over.
Kind of get that last point? Yeah, the college kid is showing right now...

Anyways, kata is AMAZINGLY essential to ANYONES martial arts training. Techniques WORK because of the concepts behind them. Why does that arm-bar work? Two-way action.
How come that wrist-lock hurts so much? Complex torque.
Simple examples yeah, but with all the X's it started to feel like my algebra class again.

All these basic concepts and more advanced one WORK because we found them in kata. We found them in the techniques kata showed us. WE broke-down and broke-apart WHY they work, and found those concepts. WE find NEW concepts through going over kata again and again and finding new techniques, or seeing a movement in a new light, and finding a new concept and finding a new way to do something that we can apply to ALL of our techniques. That process is VITAL to the developement of the martial arts. It's not just tradition it's what's at the core of ALL of our arts. If we deny that, we are denying as the masters intended us to practice THEIR techniques for years to come. You think if Soken thought kata was going to become defunct in "This day and age" he would have work with Fusei Kise so much with them?
It's not our day and age that's making kata seem "less relevant" It's US the practioners that are making kata "less relevant" then. Because WE are the ones keeping our arts, and kata, alive. If we deny that tried and true system of kata and the concepts it teaches us, we are denoucing the very methods the old masters and CREATORS of out arts had painstakingly developed and created to make sure their arts, and a small bit of themselves, would last until the end of time, still serving their original purpose of showing people how to protect themselves from the MANY outside dangers that never went away and still exist today.
So if it's been working for centuries, and it's as their creators had intended and intended for them to do..

Why not?


Edited by Demonologist437 (07/24/05 12:12 AM)
_________________________
"Success is a process, not a destination. Have faith in your ability."~Bruce Lee

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#148536 - 07/26/05 06:00 AM Re: To Kata or not to Kata [Re: Neko456]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
Quote:

As for setup training drills to apply these techniques, I often thought of that. But its almost like reinventing the wheel they already exist in the bunkias of the katas.




I don't know about reinventing the wheel, maybe rediscovering it. Now before I go any further I'd like to state that I love kata and their application, but as an experienced Doorman I serisously beleive that the way most of the applied kata theory that is taught simple doesn't work on the street. I teach and have been taught PP applications without the use of Kata's, I'll refer to them occasionally, but they are not my exclusive vechile for teaching. I don't believe that with the adernaline pumping it is possible actively target a fire point to follow up with a wood point without some form of conditioning drills against more intense mobile focussed attacks. I see the kata as a blueprint that contains the infomrmation, you then take this information and then drill it into self defence.

Quote:

I also use kata to weed out the bullies and bad boys that just want to learn to hurt people/fight better, I don't mind that but after kata training they are moldable and open for input. Theres is just something about self perefection/competeing against yourself thats humbling. They see through attempting to know & alignment the M,B & S they have more confidance, control and power. So they have less urges/needs to want to fight.





I'm probably going to get flamed for this, but I'm not really that bothered who I teach pressure points too (with the exception of kids, I don't believe that Children should be shown or have PP's applied on them). I don't really overly emphazie it to new students because they simply don't have the skill to attack PP's. I gradually introduce them once the student starts to have an understanding of the basics, and I'll only ever introduce them as tweaks and more advanced points of attack as a compliment to the core of their arsenal. I think sometimes people make more of the PP's than they actually are. I have so far never ever met anyone who has knocked anyone out on the street using the PP's alone, however I have and know of plenty of people who have put people down with a good right cross. Don't get me wrong, I do fully believe them, and have used single PP shots occasionally to stun an opponent or to get in for a restraint, but thus far have never meet anyone to apply them in a full on brawl. Personally I think it's safer teaching these wannabe bully boys PP's than it is teaching them to throw a proper reverse punch or decent front kick. The basic techniques that a student will learn when they first walk into a Dojo are far easier and more dangerous to apply in the hands of an unskilled fighter than PP's will ever be.

All this is ofcourse IMVHO!
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Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

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#148537 - 07/26/05 06:39 AM Re: To Kata or not to Kata [Re: Kempoman]
shoshinkan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
I have a 'little' expierience in kyusho and tuite, my journey is just begining in these areas.

However my awnser would be NO it cant be taught EFFECTIVLY without kata, however it can be taught in theory but you are missing the structure of kata and the priciples that it delivers that makes PP's work,

im talking angles, timing, variation of technique from different katas, my study of kata includes taking the 'effective' sequences out and breaking them down into partner work, bunkai if you like, then the PP and Tuite potential can be explored.

If you remove the kata then you have no framework to work from, no blueprint that has been tried and tested so to effecivly teach you must invent something else or stick with kata.

In relation to Gavins post I can see the 'vital' areas (groin, eyes, neck etc etc) being far more dangerous being taught than PPs.

For me kyusho and tuite should come to students once shodan is achieved and a good level of basic training, kata and conditioning has been done, say something like 4-6 years trianing minamum, teaching begineers or people with minamul expierience is utter madness, teach them to throw a good punch first.

it would seem that this area of karate has suffered greatly from commercial 'exposure' and loss of morales to teach what is essentially the heart of karate to anyone who has the bucks.
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Jim Neeter

www.shoshinkanuk.blogspot.com

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#148538 - 07/26/05 08:09 AM Re: To Kata or not to Kata [Re: shoshinkan]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
Quote:

However my awnser would be NO it cant be taught EFFECTIVLY without kata, however it can be taught in theory but you are missing the structure of kata and the priciples that it delivers that makes PP's work,

im talking angles, timing, variation of technique from different katas, my study of kata includes taking the 'effective' sequences out and breaking them down into partner work, bunkai if you like, then the PP and Tuite potential can be explored.





shoshinkan me old mucker I've gotta (respectively as always)disagree with you on this one. The other day I was teaching some PP work from a standing grapple clinch. My audience was a former european kick boxing champion, 2 wing chun guys and a friend whose trained with every system under the sun. None of the them have any Kata experience whatsoever, by the end of the session they were applying some basic PP's.

The approach I usely take is to first get them to "find" the point, this usually involves showing them where the point is (I like this bit *evil grin*). Getting them to lightly whap each other a bit, then show them how to get to the point in combat. I'll try and give a quick example:

Let's take a nice accessable point Stomach-6 or ST6. To find this point, tense the muscles of the jaw and place your thumb on the most prominent part of the jaw muscle, relax the muscle, the thumb should now be resting on the jaw bone this is where the point is. This point responds best to a sharp direct strike at a 45 degree angle upwards into the centre of the skull.

How to get there: From a really tight clinch if you've got the room this point is a great target for a short sharp head butt, palm heel or an elbow. If your opponents got their shoulders tucked up so you can't get into it, try to bury your head into their head, viciously rubbing into their face. This should create a bit of room, once your head is tightly into the point, wrap your hand around the other part of their head to clamp down and then rub your head in at the proper angle. This is agony!

That's generally the way I'll approach showing the points to start off with, then you can go onto say that it is a Earth point, what kata it applies to or what ever else floats your boat.

I generally pick on a specific point, and play around with. Does it work best to rubbing, striking or pushing. What affect does it have on the rest of the body? What other points does it open up? I don't need a Kata to do that, just an acu point chart and a willing victim, oops, partner.

From what I've read of Rand Cardwell he doesn't teach kata anymore, yet has written one of the most advanced pressure point manuals I've read "The Western Bubishi". Russell Stutely is one of europes leading pressure point experts, but a direct quote when asked what would be covered on the week long training camp was "absolutely NO kata". These are two of the worlds foremost pressure point practitioners and are leading the field in terms adrenaline response and combat PP apllication, yet from what I've read they don't actually teach kata anymore.

Sorry that was a bit of a long one, but just trying to illustrate that you don't need know kata to learn PP. Can't wait to meet up, it'll be nice to compare notes on the two different approaches!

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#148539 - 07/26/05 11:28 AM Re: To Kata or not to Kata [Re: Gavin]
shoshinkan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
Your point is fair Gavin (and based on expierience), and you have far more interest in the subject and expierience than myself.

I think I was looking at PPs as an extension of the arts, ie teaching begineer martial artists PPs would require some structure, kata delivers that structure.

However you were training expierienced martial artists, so my need for kata would seem not as appropiate.

Basically I have a relativy narrow view on what karate is and certainly what it isnt. If i had my way it wouldnt be commercialised, it wouldnt be 'segmented' and it certainly wouldnt be avalaible to all and sundry.

i realise its a prehistoric view, elitest and narrow minded - but hey I still sleep at night !

Will send you a pm fella re training
_________________________
Jim Neeter

www.shoshinkanuk.blogspot.com

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#148540 - 07/26/05 12:34 PM Re: To Kata or not to Kata [Re: shoshinkan]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
Hey man, it's all gravy! (Heard it on MTV the other day, trying to be hip!)

I don't want to come across as anti-kata here, coz I most definately not. I love seeing the look on peoples eyes when you show someone a decent bit of bunkai for a move that they've been doing for years. I believe that the kata's are brilliant for teaching. For me though, I have found them a bit of a backward way of approaching PP teaching. I prefer to show someone the targets (in this case the pressure points) and then show them how to apply it, using kata, drills and free play. At the end of the day the question was do you need to use Kata to teach PP's, in my opinion I can teach PP's with or without kata (probably better without to be honest, but that's probably lack of experience on my part).

I'll respond to your PM tomorrow mate!

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Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

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#148541 - 07/26/05 06:12 PM Re: To Kata or not to Kata [Re: Gavin]
shoshinkan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
indeed its all gravy Gavin ! Look forwar dto hearing from you mate
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Jim Neeter

www.shoshinkanuk.blogspot.com

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#148542 - 08/04/05 01:39 AM Re: To Kata or not to Kata [Re: Gavin]
Demonologist437 Offline
Member

Registered: 03/03/05
Posts: 159
Loc: Hodunk, Illinios
No offense Gavin, but SOMEBODY needs to read Chris Thomas's
article on PP's in the situations you described.
It's VERY easy to go fro one point to the next because the techniques at least CAME from your kata right? So since the pressure points are in kata, wasy to get into pressure pont strikes are already built in. The masters wouldn't put a technique in that use pressure points and not have a way to use the points with the techniques. Additionally, if you're telling me that you can't hit soemthing the size of a quater, even with some practice that is just saddening. And besides, what's thepoint of practicing your techniques? To do them, and accurately, while in stressful situations.
Plus, if you're saying that while aprrying the guys arm you can't even get near a target, of the at least 4-6 availabvle to you during a parry, all the size of a quarter, with practice no less, and then while you're pinning their arm go up for the finshing shot to the head and NOT be able to find a valid target?
Again, what is the point of practicing techniques?
To get more familiar with our targeting, to become more accurate with them, and to still BE accurate in stressful situations.
So why couldn't you get a good pressure point knockout with your techniques nearly evertime then? You said you know and understand points, right?
_________________________
"Success is a process, not a destination. Have faith in your ability."~Bruce Lee

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#148543 - 08/04/05 01:56 AM Re: To Kata or not to Kata [Re: Gavin]
Demonologist437 Offline
Member

Registered: 03/03/05
Posts: 159
Loc: Hodunk, Illinios
After adding in my 2 cents again, I will admit, most of the time blunt truama is better than exact points. In our dojo, we usually start with easy arm points to activate (lung5-6,
MUE-28, Large Intestine10, you get my drift..) and the points you need for a good arm-bar (triple warmer 12+11).
And yeah, it can help to start easy with points like that, if it's what you are trying to teach. But, I would still myself start with a technique, and highlight how the points work in the technique, so you've got an application and see how points are not the be-all, end-all, just fit in with everything else and make things MUCH easier. But that's just me, and I can for the most part agree with what you are doing. But, I still do think you need kata to learn the much nastier aspects with the pressure points like sound, stance, connections, yin-yong, quadrants, and all that stuff that you learn at black belt.
Also, didn't mean to be TO harsh if I was, I just think that like I said in my first big post, WE the martial artists of today, dictate where our arts go. If we start going in every direction with blueprint-only level ideas we could lose an integral portion of what makes our art what it is. To be honest, I think we've only barely scartched the surface of what real karate really is. Pressur points and TRUE martial arts is just starting to come back into play, and we're just now starting to get the advanced concepts, we're just now starting to get an IDEA of all the things the old masters did that made them SO effective in their day that they could take on heavily armed, well trained warriors, completely unarmed and come out not to worse for wear. So if we're still learning, why make up our own way for something that we really still don't completely understand?
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#148544 - 08/09/05 05:44 PM Re: To Kata or not to Kata [Re: Demonologist437]
shoshinkan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
'that made them SO effective in their day that they could take on heavily armed, well trained warriors, completely unarmed and come out not to worse for wear.'

Personally I seriously doubt this to be true, romantic yes, on occasion yes but certainly not regular fact from my research. I think karate is more a civilian method of self protection rather than for the battlefield.

Dont wish to be to negative but I like to keep things realistic, as i see them anyway.
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Jim Neeter

www.shoshinkanuk.blogspot.com

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#148545 - 08/10/05 05:37 AM Re: To Kata or not to Kata [Re: shoshinkan]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
Really sorry Demonologist437, only just notice your reply. That didn't come across as harsh mate, thought you made some very valid points!

With regards to the origins of Karate (or any Martial Art for that matter!) I think is not of any particular consequence to me, as long as it works. Whether it was used on the battlefield, in some dirty Sake den or a Chinese Soap kitchen really doesn't bother me, just as long as I can inflict a healthy amount of pain on someone!
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Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
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#148546 - 08/10/05 09:48 AM Re: To Kata or not to Kata [Re: Gavin]
shoshinkan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
dirty sake den....................

LOL LOL, the colourfull origins of karate eh ! You have been out in Southend lately ??????
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#148547 - 08/10/05 10:26 AM Re: To Kata or not to Kata [Re: shoshinkan]
Gavin Offline
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Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
I hope your not implying that my lovely home town is dirty?

There is nothing dirty about Southend at all, well, apart from the Ford Escorts, white high heels, white mini skirts, blonde hair, most of the women......erm, I think I might move! Ah, the joys of being an Essex lad!
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Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
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#148548 - 08/11/05 06:40 AM Re: To Kata or not to Kata [Re: Gavin]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
We was having this discussion at the Dojo last night, and My Sempai and instructor have added a few good points to my opinion which really marries up with whats been said previously in this thread.

I was saying that I didn't need to use Kata to teach PP's last night, and again they argued that they teach you angle and direction, which I said that I could teach without Kata. They kind of agreed. I went on to say that I didn't really see much real practical use in learning the Five Element theory and Yin and Yang as I think in the heat of combat finding a Fire point to follow up with a Wood point etc, just isn't going to happen. Then they said about the fact that this is what you get from your Kata, I think this pretty much ties in with alot of what has already been said in this thread.

I have really only practiced the PP's as individual strikes, partly due to knowledge and also down the fact that I obviously don't have the knowledge of my Kata that I thought I did. I think for the average Joe, individual PP's will be off more use. Quicker to teach, quicker to learn and apply. Once you start looking deeper into the Yin and Yang, 5 Element theories etc, I think that Kata's are really going to come into their own.

Is this a U-turn or sitting on the fence?
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Gavin King
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#148549 - 08/11/05 08:40 AM Re: To Kata or not to Kata [Re: Gavin]
shoshinkan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
ah got ya....................

see you down the mines for a hard days kata...............
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Jim Neeter

www.shoshinkanuk.blogspot.com

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#148550 - 08/11/05 08:54 AM Re: To Kata or not to Kata [Re: shoshinkan]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
Just for the benefit of the other board members, me and shoshinkan were having a private chin wag on this very subject yesterday in which I accused him of sounding like an old git. I knew when I was typing that post you'd be sitting on your high horse shouting "Told you so!!!!". Can't wait till you pop down my neck of the woods and I'll show you some real points smart ar$e!!!!


Edited by Gavin (08/11/05 08:54 AM)
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Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
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#148551 - 08/11/05 09:10 AM Re: To Kata or not to Kata [Re: Gavin]
shoshinkan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
LOL LOL,

Im enjoying the moment knowing its going to cost me a few little jabs in the ribs.................
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Jim Neeter

www.shoshinkanuk.blogspot.com

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#148552 - 08/11/05 09:22 AM Re: To Kata or not to Kata [Re: shoshinkan]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6664
Loc: Amherst, MA
Newbie observation:

My daughter studies kempo, and I am learning karate...both newbies. She is learning what I consider to be techniques, and I find it pretty interesting to watch and mentally note 'ah..yes..that is the same as in XXX kata'.

I have never liked getting my information piecemeal. I would rather be inundated with information overload, then get one technique at at time. Therefore, a preference for kata.

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#148553 - 08/11/05 09:41 AM Re: To Kata or not to Kata [Re: harlan]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
Shoshinkan, it's not your ribs you should be worried about! Just wait till I let James get hold of ya!!!!

harlan - I'm completely the opposite. Truth be told I'm a bit fik when it comes to learning stuff. Little digestable chunks works best for me. When someone blinds me with science my brain usually gives up the ghost. Lots of little pieces makes for one big piece, and my brain can handle little pieces (just!) :O)
_________________________
Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

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#148554 - 08/12/05 05:19 AM Re: To Kata or not to Kata [Re: Gavin]
shoshinkan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK




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Jim Neeter

www.shoshinkanuk.blogspot.com

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