'that made them SO effective in their day that they could take on heavily armed, well trained warriors, completely unarmed and come out not to worse for wear.'

Personally I seriously doubt this to be true, romantic yes, on occasion yes but certainly not regular fact from my research. I think karate is more a civilian method of self protection rather than for the battlefield.

Dont wish to be to negative but I like to keep things realistic, as i see them anyway.

Really sorry Demonologist437, only just notice your reply. That didn't come across as harsh mate, thought you made some very valid points!

With regards to the origins of Karate (or any Martial Art for that matter!) I think is not of any particular consequence to me, as long as it works. Whether it was used on the battlefield, in some dirty Sake den or a Chinese Soap kitchen really doesn't bother me, just as long as I can inflict a healthy amount of pain on someone!

dirty sake den....................

LOL LOL, the colourfull origins of karate eh ! You have been out in Southend lately ??????

I hope your not implying that my lovely home town is dirty?

There is nothing dirty about Southend at all, well, apart from the Ford Escorts, white high heels, white mini skirts, blonde hair, most of the women......erm, I think I might move! Ah, the joys of being an Essex lad!

We was having this discussion at the Dojo last night, and My Sempai and instructor have added a few good points to my opinion which really marries up with whats been said previously in this thread.

I was saying that I didn't need to use Kata to teach PP's last night, and again they argued that they teach you angle and direction, which I said that I could teach without Kata. They kind of agreed. I went on to say that I didn't really see much real practical use in learning the Five Element theory and Yin and Yang as I think in the heat of combat finding a Fire point to follow up with a Wood point etc, just isn't going to happen. Then they said about the fact that this is what you get from your Kata, I think this pretty much ties in with alot of what has already been said in this thread.

I have really only practiced the PP's as individual strikes, partly due to knowledge and also down the fact that I obviously don't have the knowledge of my Kata that I thought I did. I think for the average Joe, individual PP's will be off more use. Quicker to teach, quicker to learn and apply. Once you start looking deeper into the Yin and Yang, 5 Element theories etc, I think that Kata's are really going to come into their own.

Is this a U-turn or sitting on the fence?

ah got ya....................

see you down the mines for a hard days kata...............

Just for the benefit of the other board members, me and shoshinkan were having a private chin wag on this very subject yesterday in which I accused him of sounding like an old git. I knew when I was typing that post you'd be sitting on your high horse shouting "Told you so!!!!". Can't wait till you pop down my neck of the woods and I'll show you some real points smart ar$e!!!!

LOL LOL,

Im enjoying the moment knowing its going to cost me a few little jabs in the ribs.................

Newbie observation:

My daughter studies kempo, and I am learning karate...both newbies. She is learning what I consider to be techniques, and I find it pretty interesting to watch and mentally note 'ah..yes..that is the same as in XXX kata'.

I have never liked getting my information piecemeal. I would rather be inundated with information overload, then get one technique at at time. Therefore, a preference for kata.

Shoshinkan, it's not your ribs you should be worried about! Just wait till I let James get hold of ya!!!!

harlan - I'm completely the opposite. Truth be told I'm a bit fik when it comes to learning stuff. Little digestable chunks works best for me. When someone blinds me with science my brain usually gives up the ghost. Lots of little pieces makes for one big piece, and my brain can handle little pieces (just!) :O)