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#148420 - 05/24/05 10:49 AM Wing Chun and Ground fighting
monji112000 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/05/04
Posts: 177
thoughts or comments?

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#148421 - 05/24/05 10:54 AM Re: Wing Chun and Ground fighting [Re: monji112000]
MattJ Offline
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Registered: 11/25/04
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Care to be more specific?
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#148422 - 05/24/05 10:56 AM Re: Wing Chun and Ground fighting [Re: MattJ]
monji112000 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/05/04
Posts: 177
Things to think about?

1. How vulnerable a person is on the ground vs someone standing.
2. How often “real” street fights aren't one person vs. one person.
3. How often in “real” street fights people have broken bottles, bats, knifes, ect..
4. How vulnerable are you when you shoot in like most grappler's do?
A well trained knee, and a good fook sao can go a long way. Think about it you are exposing a very delicate part of your body (your head) to a free for all.
5. If someone teaches you how to defend against a person with a knife.. are you going to
ask them ”what happens when I get stabbed?”
I am not talking about basic first aid.
6. What environment was Judo and jujitsu created under?( could be wrong I will go look this up) I don't believe ground fighting was very popular during Japan's large waring periods. I would imagine that Submission fighting wasn't practical arsenal in battle.
7. How safe is it to fight with someone for 10 minutes on the ground? I have seen ground fights last longer in sports events.

I love and respect Judo/ jujitsu players, but I am not a professional fighter. I only care about protecting myself.

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#148423 - 05/24/05 11:51 AM Re: Wing Chun and Ground fighting [Re: monji112000]
coxne Offline
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Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 419
Loc: Ohio, USA
Those are interesting questions. I suggest you find a qualified instructor in your area. Good Luck.

In all seriousness...
1. There are many techniques for when you are on the ground and your oponent is standing.
2. I am sure there are some occasions where it is one on one, but does it really matter? If you want to protect yourself like you claim you do, you wouldn't pput yourself in the position of being in danger.
3. Again, I am sure it happens. but, same comment as I said in #2.
4. Well, don't shoot in then.
5. More than likely I will.
6. I don't see how these questions pertain to kung fu, but maybe I am wrong.
7. How safe is it to fight anyone anywhere for 10 minutes? Why would you want to? If you want to protect yourself like you claim you do then you want to take them out quickly, then run like mad.

These questions would have better bearing in the Judo forum.

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#148424 - 05/24/05 11:59 AM Re: Wing Chun and Ground fighting [Re: monji112000]
MattJ Offline
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Quote by monji112000 -

Quote:

1. How vulnerable a person is on the ground vs someone standing.




It depends. No sane person is going to drop to the floor on their back in a street fight. But a relevant question is how vulnerable are both people on the ground? If one guy knows groundfighting and the other does not, well.....

Quote:

2. How often “real” street fights aren't one person vs. one person.




My personal experience has been that more fights are one-on-one than not, but that would vary by area, etc, I'm sure.

Quote:

3. How often in “real” street fights people have broken bottles, bats, knifes, ect..




Again, not that often in my experience, but elsewhwere...?

Quote:

4. How vulnerable are you when you shoot in like most grappler's do?
A well trained knee, and a good fook sao can go a long way. Think about it you are exposing a very delicate part of your body (your head) to a free for all.




You would think so, but in reality, trained grapplers will shoot in on you from very close distance and very quickly. By the time you raise your knee, you are halfway to the ground. The shoot is only one type of takedown, in any
case. Most grapplers are familiar with several types takedowns.

Quote:

5. If someone teaches you how to defend against a person with a knife.. are you going to
ask them ”what happens when I get stabbed?”
I am not talking about basic first aid.




??????????????????????

Relevance to the topic?

Quote:

6. What environment was Judo and jujitsu created under?( could be wrong I will go look this up) I don't believe ground fighting was very popular during Japan's large waring periods. I would imagine that Submission fighting wasn't practical arsenal in battle.




Modern groundfighting was refined in Brazil, for challenge matches and streetfights there. Most military battles involve weapons, so I imagine groundfighting was not a focal point on the battlefeild.

Quote:

7. How safe is it to fight with someone for 10 minutes on the ground? I have seen ground fights last longer in sports events.




Not sure of your point. Any other type of fight is going to be safer?

Quote:

I love and respect Judo/ jujitsu players, but I am not a professional fighter. I only care about protecting myself.




And they don't?
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#148425 - 05/24/05 12:02 PM Re: Wing Chun and Ground fighting [Re: coxne]
monji112000 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/05/04
Posts: 177
On the contrary, I think this is a good Kung Fu topic. I am a WC student (this is a kung fu style), and many people would like to talk about ground fighting in reference to this fighting style.

I don't fight on the ground, these thoughts were to spur a logical discussion on the need to add ground fighting into WC.

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#148426 - 05/24/05 12:21 PM Re: Wing Chun and Ground fighting [Re: MattJ]
monji112000 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/05/04
Posts: 177
Quote:

It depends. No sane person is going to drop to the floor on their back in a street fight. But a relevant question is how vulnerable are both people on the ground? If one guy knows ground fighting and the other does not, well.....

No but In my experience and most people fights happen in groups not one on one matches. Most people like to have people “backing them up”, so rolling on the ground and being vulnerable is a very BIG problem.

Quote:

My personal experience has been that more fights are one-on-one than not, but that would vary by area, etc, I'm sure.

Its very rare to be in bar fight, ect.. and have One person fighting another person, with NO other people influencing the fight. I am not talking from my own experience only, I have talked to many other fighters to reach this fact.

Quote:

Again, not that often in my experience, but elsewhere.?
YES PEOPLE FIGHT DIRTY. LOL have to seen any bar fights? Have you been mugged before?


Quote:
You would think so, but in reality, trained grappler's will shoot in on you from very close distance and very quickly. By the time you raise your knee, you are halfway to the ground. The shoot is only one type of takedown, in any
case. Most grappler's are familiar with several types takedowns.

Yes I know, thats why I said a well trained knee. Why raise your knee? Jam forward as low/high as the situation calls for.

Quote:

The argument of WHAT IF you get taken to the ground in a Sports match. It parallels the knife question.


Relevant to the topic.

Quote:
Modern ground fighting was refined in Brazil, for challenge matches and street fights there. Most military battles involve weapons, so I imagine ground fighting was not a focal point on the battlefield.
BJJ comes from Japan. Russian Judo.. Japan. You can apply personal application.. but its still perfected in Japan when it was created. I was commenting on the background that needed this style.

Quote:


Not sure of your point. Any other type of fight is going to be safer?

I love and respect Judo/ jujitsu players, but I am not a professional fighter. I only care about protecting myself.
And they don't?

I am not discussing the practicality of any style only Wing Chun and Ground fighting.

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#148427 - 05/24/05 01:10 PM Re: Wing Chun and Ground fighting [Re: monji112000]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
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Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Hmmm....you ask questions, then shoot down all the answers that don't fit your obviously very limited knowledge.

Quote by monji112000 -

Quote:

I don't fight on the ground, these thoughts were to spur a logical discussion on the need to add ground fighting into WC.




That is highly debatable. You have an axe to grind against groundfighting (probably because you do not know any), and use the cover of semi-legit questions to mask your true intentions.

You think you can avoid being taken down in all cases in a fight? You are delusional, but thanks for the laugh. Please spar some groundfighters, and learn for yourself.

PS - You think you can get into a knife fight and not get cut or stabbed? LOL!! Have YOU ever been in a real fight?

*shakes head, walks away*
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#148428 - 05/24/05 01:37 PM Re: Wing Chun and Ground fighting [Re: MattJ]
monji112000 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/05/04
Posts: 177
(not the topic but.. training to not get stabbed would be the whole purpose of knife defense training.)

has anyone adapted WC to the ground? combining BJJ with WC ect..?

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#148429 - 05/24/05 02:29 PM Re: Wing Chun and Ground fighting [Re: monji112000]
coxne Offline
Member

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 419
Loc: Ohio, USA
In order to become a well rounded fighter, yes, you will need to learn a ground game. I take kung fu and ju-jitsu (4 month newb at ju-jitsu), but they are separate classes and different schools. And being a four month newb in ju-jitsu, I know there are more ways to take someone down than to just shoot at the legs. And if you do throw up a good knee, good job, you just gave the ground guy the exact thing he was going for.

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