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#147072 - 05/20/05 06:21 PM Naihanchi. Have I missed something?
SANCHIN31 Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3783
Loc: Arkansas, U.S.
In the "pick one" thread I noticed alot of members picked Naihanchi. Apparently goju doesn't have a version of Naihanchi,but with all the good techniques in such a short kata I think it might be worth while for me to learn.
Which variation of Naihanchi should I learn?
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Skinny,Bald,and Handsome! Fightingarts Warrior of the year

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#147073 - 05/20/05 06:44 PM Re: Naihanchi. Have I missed something? [Re: SANCHIN31]
medulanet Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
Naihanchi is the basic tanrenho exercise for shuri te/tomari te styles of shorin ryu. Much like sanchin is for naha te, it is the basis for developing in karate. It teaches the basic inside fighting techniques of karate, which is the key for developing an effective fighting system. The kata is also a bridge to advanced fighting principles and power generation. Although other katas are necessary to truly develop an effective karate fighter, it is the basic exercise. Naihanchi Shodan is the best place to begin.

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#147074 - 05/21/05 12:32 AM Re: Naihanchi. Have I missed something? [Re: SANCHIN31]
kenposan Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/23/01
Posts: 633
Loc: Columbus, Ohio
When people speak of Naihnachi, they are speaking of Shodan. Although there are three Naihanchi kata, some styles only do Shodan. They are all fairly similar. Check out Iain Abernethy's video on Naihanchi, he talks about stylistic differences.
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The angry man will defeat himself in battle, as well as in life. -Samurai maxim

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#147075 - 05/21/05 03:58 AM Re: Naihanchi. Have I missed something? [Re: SANCHIN31]
shoshinkan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
It would be a superb addition to any okinawan karate practioners arsenal in fact to any martial artists.

I am primarily a shorin practioner but practise goju sanchin without hesitation.

these 2 kata are foundations of good okinawan karate IMO. for very different reasons.

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#147076 - 05/21/05 04:43 AM Re: Naihanchi. Have I missed something? [Re: shoshinkan]
madfrank Offline
Member

Registered: 07/24/04
Posts: 93
Loc: UK
Hi All

Kata are complete fighting systems.

If you 'know' a kata, you dont need any more.

Everything is in Naihanchi, If you know where and how to look.

MF
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Be good people

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#147077 - 05/23/05 01:29 PM Re: Naihanchi. Have I missed something? [Re: madfrank]
BuDoc Offline
The doctor will see you now

Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 1067
Loc: USA and Abroad
Naihanchi is probably one of my favorites.

I have heard that many Okinawan masters, when asked what kata is most important, have said naihanchi.

Learning Naihanchi can only help.

Page
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Medical Advisor for the Somolian National Sumo Team

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#147078 - 05/24/05 12:51 AM Re: Naihanchi. Have I missed something? [Re: BuDoc]
SANCHIN31 Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3783
Loc: Arkansas, U.S.
Thanks everyone for your replies. Right now I study Sanchin,Tensho,Seiyunchin,and Sanseru. I think Naihanchi will be a good addition to my kata study in the future.
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Skinny,Bald,and Handsome! Fightingarts Warrior of the year

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#147079 - 05/24/05 11:54 AM Re: Naihanchi. Have I missed something? [Re: SANCHIN31]
Alejandro Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/02/02
Posts: 940
Loc: Las Cruces, NM USA
Naihanchi would be a great addition to your arsenal. It may round you out a bit. My style includes both Naihanchi and Sanchin, but I picked up Seipai earlier this year, which I have learned a lot from. A good thing to do to broaden one's karate horizons.

I don't know how you are plannng on learning it, but I recommend you hook up with a Shorin ryu-ha instructor to teach you. Shorin Ryu (Kobayashi) Shorinkan, Matsubayashi Ryu, Shobayashi Ryu, or Matsamura Seito would be great. You could learn it on your own, but the mechanics are different from Goju kata, so you might find that tricky.

Naihanchi has encountered less "drift" than other classical kata, with the main difference being the stance which, when deepened for aesthetics and training, upsets the mechanics of the kata. Differences in movement, however, are minor and mostly irrelevent. Enjoy!
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In Budo, -Al

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#147080 - 05/25/05 02:12 AM Re: Naihanchi. Have I missed something? [Re: Alejandro]
SANCHIN31 Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3783
Loc: Arkansas, U.S.
Thankyou Alejandro,
I actually have a friend that is Sandan in Shorin-Ryu.

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#147081 - 06/02/05 06:55 AM Re: Naihanchi. Have I missed something? [Re: Alejandro]
naraebon Offline
Member

Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 47
Loc: Vienna, Austria
Quote:

Naihanchi has encountered less "drift" than other classical kata, with the main difference being the stance which, when deepened for aesthetics and training, upsets the mechanics of the kata. Differences in movement, however, are minor and mostly irrelevent.




Alejandro, how do you know about the "drift" katas encounter .. ?

cheers,
Nara Ebon

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#147082 - 06/03/05 05:55 PM Re: Naihanchi. Have I missed something? [Re: naraebon]
Alejandro Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/02/02
Posts: 940
Loc: Las Cruces, NM USA
Perhaps I should have rephrased that statement.

No one knows exactly what drift (being the change in original form and function that kata encountered over time) has ocurred in any given kata. I was referring to the fact that all versions of naihanchi tend to be on a similar page, with differences not being drastic. Certain "drift" is known, however, by comparing known older versions of classical kata, from classical ryu-ha, with more modern versions. But, of course, nothing is certain, so I certainly don't "know about the drift kata encounter" like my statement may have implied.
_________________________
In Budo, -Al

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#147083 - 06/03/05 11:43 PM Re: Naihanchi. Have I missed something? [Re: Alejandro]
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3219
Loc: Derry, NH
Alejandro,

My take on the differing Naihanchi versions is they are terribly different, including using different energy generation mechanisms.

I believe the resemblence is superficial, but inside the variations there is as much difference as there is in the 15 variations of Patsai, or Seisan or whatever.

And as in everything else, I strongly suspect all of them are quite practical, just different.

The tidal drift on Okinawan kata remains a constant.
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victor smith bushi no te isshinryu offering free instruction for 30 years

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#147084 - 08/04/05 11:37 AM Re: Naihanchi. Have I missed something? [Re: SANCHIN31]
1961 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/28/05
Posts: 26
Hi.
Shorin ryu, of course. And ALL THREE
You can`t have much time to rase
your legs
Shorin ryu! Easy! Short! Effective...
Troubles will be in your moves. They are too short.
Power you can find in relaxation !!! And VERY-VERY short SPEED moves. Twitch your... claster(?) raseme(?) with maximus relax and speed. And stop it. Your can understand
short moves.
Br.

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#147085 - 08/04/05 09:23 PM Re: Naihanchi. Have I missed something? [Re: 1961]
SANCHIN31 Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3783
Loc: Arkansas, U.S.
Quote:

Hi.
Shorin ryu, of course. And ALL THREE
You can`t have much time to rase
your legs
Shorin ryu! Easy! Short! Effective...
Troubles will be in your moves. They are too short.
Power you can find in relaxation !!! And VERY-VERY short SPEED moves. Twitch your... claster(?) raseme(?) with maximus relax and speed. And stop it. Your can understand
short moves.
Br.




Um,you are kinda sounding like yoda there guy. I'll get started on naihanchi as soon as I am better.Thanks.
_________________________
Skinny,Bald,and Handsome! Fightingarts Warrior of the year

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#147086 - 08/08/05 12:49 PM Re: Naihanchi. Have I missed something? [Re: SANCHIN31]
BulldogTKD Offline
Member

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 294
I practiced Shorin ryu a long time ago, well over 20 years ago and guess what Kata I remember? Naihanchi Shodan! Of all the forms I have learned that is still my favorite. I have a link to Master Mc's web site where he demonstrates it and I think his kata is the best. Lets see If I can put the link up. http://mchenry.homeip.net/TangSooDo/forms/
I think that is it. Good luck!

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#147087 - 08/09/05 02:06 PM Re: Naihanchi. Have I missed something? [Re: BulldogTKD]
SANCHIN31 Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3783
Loc: Arkansas, U.S.
Thanks everyone! I'll get started on learning naihanchi shodan toward the the end of the year.
_________________________
Skinny,Bald,and Handsome! Fightingarts Warrior of the year

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#147088 - 08/10/05 03:14 PM Re: Naihanchi. Have I missed something? [Re: Victor Smith]
Alejandro Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/02/02
Posts: 940
Loc: Las Cruces, NM USA
Quote:

Alejandro,

My take on the differing Naihanchi versions is they are terribly different, including using different energy generation mechanisms.

I believe the resemblence is superficial, but inside the variations there is as much difference as there is in the 15 variations of Patsai, or Seisan or whatever.

And as in everything else, I strongly suspect all of them are quite practical, just different.

The tidal drift on Okinawan kata remains a constant.




Just found your reply!

I see your point. Such as the mechanics of energy generation are very different in shiko dachi than kiba dachi, or even in varying depths of kiba dachi, or in the manner in which one executes the cross step. Neither better nor worse, just different.
_________________________
In Budo, -Al

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#147089 - 08/10/05 06:31 PM Re: Naihanchi. Have I missed something? [Re: Alejandro]
shoshinkan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
In matsubayashi ryu we use naihanchi dachi, essentially shoulder width (maybee a little wider) kiba dachi (toes forward, not out).

I have also trained the kata from shiko dachi previously and find the higher stance (not disimilair to sanchin dachi width ) allows far better structure in the kata, greater power generation, control and flow and makes alot more sense when looking at applications.

Its just my expierience and obviously i respect others have different expierience. And in fairness i have seen older chinese versions trained from very low horse stances???

I like the fact i train sanchin and naihanchi stances the same width, it gives me a good structure to base my karate on, its also the width of my freestyle stance - keeps it all simple for me!
_________________________
Jim Neeter

www.shoshinkanuk.blogspot.com

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