MuayThai, no offense, but you took my post WAY out of context. The question I was adressing was what I would do if someone pushed me...I would throw them. I do have training stand-up...my reference to the ground was if it is possible and you are one on one. I said IT DEPENDS ON THE SITUATION. I am extremely comfortable on the ground, and if it is me v one opponent, that is where we are going (or I'll do my best to get there). If two guys were in my face, obviously I would not grab one and try to go to the ground, that is just stupid. If it was me and one guy with no one else around, I'm grappling. I have had one fight within the past year and it literally lasted 5 seconds...O soto gari to arm bar...then a friend broke it up. I don't even count this experience as a fight. My grappling was working great. I am not saying I would take every fight to the ground, but if it is one on one and I get a hold of something (wrist, neck, sleeve, hip...whatever) my opponent is either skilled, or going down hard and fast...if I have no fear of someone else jumping in, I'm going with him looking for my next move.

You asked what I would do if asked to use my fighting ability...I would do what the situation calls for. If that means strike, I will strike...if it means grapple, I'll do that...I was answering the question as it was asked...if some guy tried to get in a shoving contest with me, I resort to Judo.

Sorry, apparently I missed one of your points. You said that while I go for the throw I could end up on my back...I'm not a complete idiot...I would throw a few shots before closing the gap if needed and I would certainly have my hands up...I wouldn't run at the guy with my hands at my sides.

Posted by MuayThai: "You must remember, it is YOU who is fighting, if you have chosen the correct techniques to use in a fight, which are to be honest the quick, easy and effective shots aiming for a KO, then all you need is the "balls", I remember the first ever time I got hit outside, I backed off, I let him hit me around for a while as I was amazed that i just got hit! that happens and unless you have experienced being in a fight expect to loose complete control of yourself as that also happens and there is nothing you can do except be prepared for it, you must not let this fear beat you cos thats why so many who do study martial arts get beaten up, they think cos they study MA's so then they must be good fighters... wrong, their art is only a part of what makes them a fighter the rest is the individual. Train to fight if thats what you intend to do with your MA's, spar in a fight simulated training routine, even compete in a local promoted fight... but the most important thing is (damn its actually ironic to think I am sounding like Jkogas ) to fight, if you wan to be able to fight youmust fight there is no easy way to knowing how. If its self confidence and fitness that you want out of your MA or for any other reason other than fighting then dont waste your time with the rigorous training that you will NEED to do in order to be a good fighter."

Who is this referring to? I have been in fights and I have been hit in the face. Are you concluding that I would take every fight to the ground simply because I posted that it is not always a bad place to be IN CERTAIN SITUATIONS? I am very aggressive and have had Tang Soo Do/Ving Tsun/Boxing experience...but since I like grappling better and suggested it is NOT ALWAYS a bad place to be you conclude...your above conclusion?

[This message has been edited by immrtldragon (edited 11-07-2003).]

The statement that most fights end up on the ground is somewhat misleading. It would be more accurate to say that most fights end up in the grapple. This usually is the "standing clinch" and, is the reason why so many fights DO end up on the ground.

As Muay Thai said, there are a lot of fight finishers to be found in the clinch. Many of those are the takedown or throws themselves.



-John

[QUOTE]Originally posted by immrtldragon:
Who is this referring to?[/QUOTE]


Not directly at you.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MuayThai:

Not directly at you.[/QUOTE]

I apologize, it just seemed that your entire post was aimed at me...miscommunication on my part...sorry.

Some fights end on the ground, some don't. Thats just how it is. I don't care how "wrong" you think grappling looks. I don't care how "cool" you think your kicks are. And MuayThai in reality, when you use a submission, you break the guys arm as opposed to him tapping out. Also in reality, if you are fighting on a concrete surface, grappling is not a good idea. (Which is why if I get into a fight I try to make sure I am in a grassy area) Granted, going to the ground isn't guaranteed in a real fight, but IT DOES HAPPEN. And at the same time, being able to keep the fight standing isn't guaranteed in a real fight but it does happen. We are in an age where its not about being a grappler or being a striker anymore. What matters is being a complete fighter. Learn to grapple and learn to strike. DO BOTH, BUT DON'T DO EITHER OR!. There is a time and a place for ground fighting and theres a time and a place for striking.

Doesn't having grappling skill enable one to get out of the precarious situation of being on the ground much more quickly and efficiently than one who is untrained?

Grappling training would appear to me to be a rather nice cover-all policy . . .

Just a random thought from a karate guy . . .

Charles

Good research!

That it deals with LEO's in direct performence of their jobs might make a serious difference--but its good to know.

Might have something to do with the need to keep suspects hands away from the service weapon--assumeing it was still holstered---if it was out there is a whole other range of things that could be going on.

Way to keep your eyes open!!!

Related thread here -

http://www.fightingarts.com/ubbthreads/s...=0#Post15929602