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22740 Members
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#14704 - 07/04/07 12:19 PM
Re: X % Of Fights End Up on the Ground...
[Re: MattJ]
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Professional Poster
Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4115
Loc: California
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Wow, old thread. Good to see the actual statistic, not as high as many people claim it is though.
_________________________
Self Defense(Website by Marc MacYoung, not me)
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#14705 - 07/04/07 01:19 PM
Re: X % Of Fights End Up on the Ground...
[Re: Leo_E_49]
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Professional Poster
Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5767
Loc: USA
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LEO
Its also a stat that has some serious issues with it--cheifly its context with Police and their needs.
Still, we may have covered it prior---still glad he found it.
_________________________
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won.
Huey.
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#14706 - 07/04/07 08:25 PM
Re: X % Of Fights End Up on the Ground...
[Re: cxt]
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wants to be loved
Registered: 06/03/07
Posts: 116
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I'd trust LE stats from cops in REAL street conflicts, regardless of their desire to subdue rather than bludgeon, before I'd trust some BJJers trying to push their own groundfighting art.
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#14707 - 07/04/07 08:49 PM
Re: X % Of Fights End Up on the Ground...
[Re: Jim_Judy]
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Prolific
Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10813
Loc: North Carolina
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Quote:
I'd trust LE stats from cops in REAL street conflicts, regardless of their desire to subdue rather than bludgeon, before I'd trust some BJJers trying to push their own groundfighting art.
What about LEOs who are BJJers? Would you trust THEIR opinions? I'm asking because I am seeing a LOT of LEOs into BJJ training now (and with good reason).
It's just a fact that BJJ offers excellent grappling training. This has nothing to do with style really when you think about it. It's just grappling training that must be a part of any SD training curriculum.
Thus I don't know if it's that BJJers are pushing ground fighting so much as pushing the truth. That is; striking and grappling training are an integral part of any realistic training.
Find fault with that logic?
-John
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#14708 - 07/05/07 01:56 PM
Re: X % Of Fights End Up on the Ground...
[Re: charles mckey]
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breaks things
Registered: 02/18/04
Posts: 4370
Loc: Woodbury NJ
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I agree that most fight go to the ground, especially if a person is untrained. Only thing I can say about ground fighting is you better make it quick and get it done. People are so used to grappling in the dojo and I think they forget that a real fight involves bitting, eye gouging, throat & testicle grabbing which are all right at your finger tips while your rolling around on the ground. Plus the ever looming friend that is ready to stomp your head in or kick your ribs lick a foot ball. I would never want to go to the ground unless I had too. Remember too that Big John Mccarthy is not there to stop the fight!
_________________________
The way of the warrior does not include other ways... Miyamoto Musashi
Schanne
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#14709 - 07/05/07 02:08 PM
Re: X % Of Fights End Up on the Ground...
[Re: Jim_Judy]
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Professional Poster
Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5767
Loc: USA
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Jim Judy
That is not actually the point.
The point would be that LEO's have far different needs/goals than the average person.
So their reaction/actions are going to be different as well.
So in the end, how many of their fights go to the ground is less significant IMO, then might be expected.
As a private citizen, my main goal is not to cuff someone.
Nor is my weapon carried in a side holster that needs to be worried about in terms of hand to hand conflict.
Different world with different needs--thus different tactic sand different outcomes.
If all you looked at was the stats--sans context--it would be all too easy t get a "false positive" with the numbers.
Edited by cxt (07/05/07 02:09 PM)
_________________________
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won.
Huey.
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#14710 - 07/05/07 05:34 PM
Re: X % Of Fights End Up on the Ground...
[Re: cxt]
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Prolific
Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10813
Loc: North Carolina
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Quote:
The point would be that LEO's have far different needs/goals than the average person.
So their reaction/actions are going to be different as well.
Exactly and that SHOULD be a fairly obvious point. Cops use guns - not martial arts (for the post part). That alone changes the dynamics.
Quote:
So in the end, how many of their fights go to the ground is less significant IMO, then might be expected.
I would agree with this. What would be more important to ME personally is having a general idea of what happens to civilians. I've seen enough altercations among civilians over the past some-odd (read, "many") years to have a fairly decent understanding of what happens.
Quote:
As a private citizen, my main goal is not to cuff someone.
Nor is my weapon carried in a side holster that needs to be worried about in terms of hand to hand conflict.
Different world with different needs--thus different tactic sand different outcomes.
If all you looked at was the stats--sans context--it would be all too easy t get a "false positive" with the numbers.
Bingo. Sometimes your own two eyes can tell you more than a book of stats.
-John
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#14711 - 07/05/07 06:02 PM
Re: X % Of Fights End Up on the Ground...
[Re: cxt]
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wants to be loved
Registered: 06/03/07
Posts: 116
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Maybe those of you that haven't should read the whole article. I read it awhile back.
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#14712 - 07/05/07 07:02 PM
Re: X % Of Fights End Up on the Ground...
[Re: Jim_Judy]
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Professional Poster
Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5767
Loc: USA
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Jim Judy
Or maybe you could be a bit more specific, and a bit less cryptic in what you feel I/we missed.
Or would that not be patronizing enough and a little to helpful for you?
The article no longer seems easily available on-line and other articles that reference Greg Dossey--the man at the center of it--deal mainly with LEO's using BJJ to bring dwon suspects---as I already suggested.
Edited by cxt (07/05/07 07:28 PM)
_________________________
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won.
Huey.
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#14713 - 07/05/07 07:28 PM
Re: X % Of Fights End Up on the Ground...
[Re: cxt]
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wants to be loved
Registered: 06/03/07
Posts: 116
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No... or Yes.... or No... Cryptic? 
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