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#146686 - 05/22/05 08:21 AM Re: The dreaded "chamber" [Re: SANCHIN31]
shoshinkan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
I think we are drifting a little, for me the motion of hikite and full chambering has many uses however unless im utilising one of those uses (ie grabbing and pulling, applying lock) i have no need for chambering, the hikite (in my mind hip movement) happens anyway as i have done many years basic training.

the point being that to blindly chamber your hand on your hip is of no use to anyone and could be considered bad defense. I personally dont buy the muscle/elbow strike argument by repative chambering.

However for basic training then the hikite and full chamber is of use to teach correct alignment of hips for offensive power transmition and defensive body alignment etc etc. It also introductes the principle of using both hands in karate!

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#146687 - 05/22/05 02:37 PM Re: The dreaded "chamber" and slightly off topic [Re: Hedgehogey]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
Sanchin31,

Hey...I know there was probably some bitter vitriolic language in Hedge's post that you deleted. And probably with good reason. But to be fair, MV's post was not necessarily on topic either.

Funny, one comes to the defense of karate (which I have done myself) but with the same comments, puts his take on karate as better (and by implication, above) other karate. On this forum, I have never put down a particular art. Particular practioners, yes...by what they have stated...however, not what style or how others have trained.

I personally agree with JKogas' (and probably Hedge's training model). Since, I have personally seen proof that this practice works.

I have never had the opportunity in my youth to practice Okinawan Karate and am currently satisfied with where and how I train. And no, I do not know if I could take on a mugger....I do not claim to be a fighter or a brawler.

And yes, I have also seen how chambered punch training has helped me with my boxing style punches. I don't discredit those whom I have not had the privledge to practice with.

-B

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#146688 - 05/22/05 03:47 PM Re: The dreaded "chamber" [Re: SANCHIN31]
nenipp Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/13/04
Posts: 1205
"what can the chamber be for?
1) elbow to ribs
2) two way action, push/pull
3) grappling, holding opponent in position for strikes or locks"

1) why not

2) no, if I pull I do so before a punch, not simultaneous, because otherwise I can't hit even close to the target (other than by chance) and the punch is much faster than the pull (of course the pull in application isn't necessarily as long as the one in formalised practice). In other words the "car crash" doesn't work for me (bou n.b. I'm talking about my own practice, not what's right or wrong)

3) if I understand this point correctly, then yes.

just my three cents...

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#146689 - 05/22/05 04:41 PM Re: The dreaded "chamber" [Re: Hedgehogey]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5822
Loc: USA
Hedge

Brother, pal, buddy, please, please, pretty please, stop the generalization train before it leaves the station again, ok?

Karate is "blanket" or "umbrella" term that people use with less than accurate meaning.

There is NO "planet karate" as you put it.

There are dozens of discrete sytles and hundards of offshoots.
And like anything else--MMA included, some folks are excellent some are bottom-feeders

THERE IS NO "KARATE" STYLE PER-SE

When you pick something you find questionable or you don't like--then label it "karate" you building whats called a "strawman."
And "strawmen" are pretty useless in discussion or debate.

In answer to your question back on page 5--many styles do grab the arm/hair/lapel/etc of their oppt in sparring.


Edited by cxt (05/22/05 05:41 PM)
_________________________
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won. Huey.

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#146690 - 05/22/05 08:36 PM Re: The dreaded "chamber" [Re: SANCHIN31]
Bullfrog Offline
Member

Registered: 03/21/05
Posts: 121
Loc: Wellington, New Zealand
Hmm, that might give me something to think over about my chambering. Maybe high isn't always good . Thanks Sanchin

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#146691 - 05/23/05 03:44 PM Re: The dreaded "chamber" [Re: SANCHIN31]
PineForest Offline
Member

Registered: 05/23/05
Posts: 26
Loc: Nebraska
Chambering is Karate's version of multitasking. You are training your non-striking hand to perform simultaneous action. Much like kata, the bunkai of this action can be interpreted in many different ways.

Is kata also useless? To bash chambering is to bash most kata, and this is simply ignorant. The push/pull action is what gives the Karate punch it's power. In a real situation you do not have time to put your dukes up and feel out your enemy with light jabs. So, perhaps chambering is useless in sport/point fighting. But when it's your life on the line, you need to end it in one swift action.
_________________________
I spanked you as a baby, and I'll spank you now.

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#146692 - 05/24/05 04:51 AM Re: The dreaded "chamber" and slightly off topic [Re: butterfly]
Multiversed Offline
Banned

Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 642
Loc: Sa, Tx. USA
Quote:

Sanchin31,

Hey...I know there was probably some bitter vitriolic language in Hedge's post that you deleted. And probably with good reason. But to be fair, MV's post was not necessarily on topic either.

Funny, one comes to the defense of karate (which I have done myself) but with the same comments, puts his take on karate as better (and by implication, above) other karate. On this forum, I have never put down a particular art. Particular practioners, yes...by what they have stated...however, not what style or how others have trained.

I personally agree with JKogas' (and probably Hedge's training model).
-B



You don't seem to understand that karate is not a blanket term. Not all karate was created equal or even for the same purpose. Karate is a generic term which defines an art about as well as the term kenpo does (or kung fu or just chuan fa). You are commenting from a very diplomatic angle but your ability to truly understand what I'm saying is based on a limited knowledge of any specific ryuha or better yet the ryu of karate you are speaking of when you say "karate". It's not like boxing or judo. You have to be specific or else your comments mean squat here. Really. Trust me.

Both of my replies were on-topic. I addressed the often overlooked fact that beyond the obvious applications stated by the multitudes, proper chambering develops the sinews and muscles for proper punching when not chambering. It's structural biomechanics (ki).

I also talked about how chambering, or any other aspect of kata training, is crucial to understanding how to use your waza in a controlled gross-motor movement fashion. From macro movements comes refined motor movement needed to balance/enhance the effectiveness and reflexiveness of repetitive mind and muscle training. I used the example of pro football players and the use of controlled, limited pad practice versus hard full on, full-speed gameplay with every practice session. The former echoes the realities of traditional asian martial arts training, the latter the more ring or competition oriented styles.

All that was right on. Sanchin might not have liked some of my expressions, but my posts deal with the topic at hand.

Do I need to explain my position any further to those who need some sort of schooling about what this general term "karate" means? Don't delete knowledge. Just let the masses read and learn.

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#146693 - 05/24/05 06:03 AM Re: The dreaded "chamber" and slightly off topic [Re: Multiversed]
SANCHIN31 Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3783
Loc: Arkansas, U.S.
Multi,
I don't doubt that you have knowledge to share,but do you really think you can convince people with the your art sucks and mine don't attitude? That was not on topic at all.
The way you went about your post will only start a flame war that will go back and forth.With hedge talking about 'live' and you responding. Let's just get on with the learning and leave the rest at the door.
_________________________
Skinny,Bald,and Handsome! Fightingarts Warrior of the year

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#146694 - 05/24/05 09:37 AM Re: The dreaded "chamber" and slightly off topic [Re: SANCHIN31]
Sanchin Offline
Member

Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 174
Small question, why does everyone argue applications back and forth, when you all have good applications that work... right ? they do work for you ? : )

anyway, all the applications stated are being used in different circumstances, and the circumstances dictate the application, cant you just agree that it can be used for infinite amount of applications for various combat activities? I myself agree with almost all applications stated, even MV about the sinews and whatnot. Were all trying to make karate "better" yet everyone is fighting against each other for NO reason. Just my thoughts.
_________________________
"Everything is already, and always will be given" - Our New Pope. B

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#146695 - 05/24/05 09:50 AM Re: The dreaded "chamber" and slightly off topic [Re: Sanchin]
oldman Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5884
It's like the blind men and the elephant.

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