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#146646 - 05/20/05 09:44 AM Re: The dreaded "chamber" [Re: Victor Smith]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
That's what I meant to say! Very very well put!
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#146647 - 05/20/05 09:47 AM Re: The dreaded "chamber" [Re: Victor Smith]
shoshinkan Offline
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Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
I agree with that for sure Victor, nicely put.

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#146648 - 05/20/05 09:52 AM Re: The dreaded "chamber" [Re: shoshinkan]
shoshinkan Offline
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Registered: 05/10/05
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Loc: UK
Moving the focus away from application of hikite to simple punching.

Does anyone pratcise the full hikite position (ie on hip) when practising kumite, ie landing a punch? If so for what reason?

I find that my hips know what they are doing and its far more pratical to have both hands infront of the body for offence and defense, and far quicker for multiple striking which is what my style advocates and I agree with!

The days of a relying on a single blow are gone and I no longer compete in semi contact so drop the use of it.

your thoughts appriciated.

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#146649 - 05/20/05 09:54 AM Re: The dreaded "chamber" [Re: Gavin]
BuDoc Offline
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Registered: 05/03/05
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Wow. I wanted to comment on this, but I think that Oldman and Victor really summed it up.

I teach new students to chamber for many reasons. The easiest to explain is this: I want them to get use to having a pull back hand with something in it. When they start getting advanced they usualy find that pulling a hand back "chambered" really helps their tuite.

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#146650 - 05/20/05 10:12 AM Re: The dreaded "chamber" [Re: shoshinkan]
MattJ Offline
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I agree with Shoshinkan. Hip chamber is not necessary for power. Proper hip torque and body weight transfer will allow for serious striking power without the need to draw the hand back.
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#146651 - 05/20/05 10:22 AM Re: The dreaded "chamber" [Re: shoshinkan]
Victor Smith Offline
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Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3219
Loc: Derry, NH
Does anyone pratcise the full hikite position (ie on hip) when practising kumite, ie landing a punch? If so for what reason?

If you're talking about striking during sparring, the primary purpose would be to show contempt for one's opponent, assuming you can move well enough to do so.

But funny aside (and I find that answer hysterical!) you're really talking about several different things. For defensive answers I don't consider a single punch a solid response, rather all of the body doing things at the same time, so the chambering/retracting hand is vital.

But you're case for sparring has merit, and there are advanced answers (not using the kata pardigm) that just explode to a technique(or technique series) conclusion and then chambering would not be involved.

This isn't better or worse than chambering, just a different answer.
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#146652 - 05/20/05 10:59 AM Re: The dreaded "chamber" [Re: Victor Smith]
shoshinkan Offline
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Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
this thread is getting really interesting, well done all !

Thanks for your thoughts Victor, as always very interesting.

My reasoning behind looking at punching and hikite is that i beleive that full hikite should be taught in basics to begineers for the first year or so, then it should be dropped for sparring/partner work asit is unrealistic at best. it also opens your defense immesurably and also slows your 'flow' of technique. dont get me wrong if you grab in the kumite then use the hikite for what it is designed for!

however when practising kata it should be done as in the kata, this ensures the full movement is correct and allows good bunkai to be drawn from the kata.

for basics im on the fence, single techniques im ok with full hikite but combinations im not sure - remember I use the both hands front (one nr solar plexes) ready stance which by default gives hikite but not the full chamber.

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#146653 - 05/20/05 12:06 PM Re: The dreaded "chamber" [Re: shoshinkan]
cxt Offline
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Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5822
Loc: USA
Another thing to consider.

If you put your hands up in a short "boxers" stance, left leading right cocked back.
Pulling the right hand back it a "karate" chamber is not much distance at all.

This is relevent for two reasons.

1-Much classical karate was designed to work at very close ranges--esp the Goju/Uechi styles.
A high tight chamber allows more "room" as it were to really crank a hard punch in.

2-When things really get tense most people perform in less than ideal, "textbook" fashion.
In this situation most folks would tend to pull the chamber "short" which leaves the hands in "boxers" position.
Which is STILL a good place to fight from.

The hand that is out--drawing in as the other hand is being chambered and set works pretty well for parry/redirection of incoming strikes.

Just some food for thought.


Edited by cxt (05/20/05 12:07 PM)
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#146654 - 05/20/05 12:22 PM Re: The dreaded "chamber" [Re: cxt]
shoshinkan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
cxt,

we think the same my friend, nice one

and its comforting to see older photos of okinawan karate in this position during kumite practise.

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#146655 - 05/20/05 02:09 PM Re: The dreaded "chamber" [Re: MattJ]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
I agree with Shoshinkan and MattJ,
Don't have to have hand on hip. I also think that guards in front, especially around the face are necessary. Nothing like chambering and having an opponent take an angle to the strike and set up a punch to the unprotected side of the head.

-B

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