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#146626 - 05/19/05 07:27 PM The dreaded "chamber"
SANCHIN31 Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3783
Loc: Arkansas, U.S.
When bashing karate is the issue the chamber is always brought up. Usually referring to "punching from the hip".
As many of us already know someone that says that has had poor instruction. So what can the chamber be for?
1) elbow to ribs
2) two way action, push/pull
3) grappling, holding opponent in position for strikes or locks

Now we have dispelled the myth that chambering is only traditional and has no self defense applications.
You may add your uses of the chamber or likes/dislikes.
_________________________
Skinny,Bald,and Handsome! Fightingarts Warrior of the year

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#146627 - 05/19/05 09:00 PM Re: The dreaded "chamber" [Re: SANCHIN31]
Petjut84 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 102
how do you elbow to the ribs if your fist is by your armpit?
2 way action, ok....i can see pushing but pulling you would have to reach out first
-do you mean standup grappling? If you hold someone in position for a strike or a lock than they can hold you too. I would say you probably hafto hit someone at least once first to control them.

I think the chamber is kinda a good idea but there are several ways it puts you in a mess that its better not to do it. One thing is you can get jammed on your chamber arm and have it trapped to your body. My instrustor likes to parry the front arm and punch the chamber arm shoulder and I guarantee you you will not chamber after that. ALso, when I took karate. No one chambers when you spar. The second highest rank there, when he sparred punched from about half extension. Basically just had his hands like a boxer. He had more power and more speed than everyone there. I think that says something. Also, many boxers have a lot more power in their punches than the average karate guy and they dont chamber.

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#146628 - 05/19/05 09:16 PM Re: The dreaded "chamber" [Re: Petjut84]
SANCHIN31 Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3783
Loc: Arkansas, U.S.
First of all you have no idea what you're talking about junior.

Quote:

how do you elbow to the ribs if your fist is by your armpit?




opponent is behind you/bearhug etc..


Quote:

2 way action, ok....i can see pushing but pulling you would have to reach out first




Not if he grabs you or makes a motion toward you with his hand(s).


Quote:

-do you mean standup grappling? If you hold someone in position for a strike or a lock than they can hold you too. I would say you probably hafto hit someone at least once first to control them.




They can't be holding you in such a vulnerable position. You do not have to strike first. It could be stand up or otherwise.



Quote:

I think the chamber is kinda a good idea but there are several ways it puts you in a mess that its better not to do it.





It's a good idea that's better not to do?

Quote:

One thing is you can get jammed on your chamber arm and have it trapped to your body.




You don't have it on your body except for trapping.You won't be jammed.


Quote:

My instrustor likes to parry the front arm and punch the chamber arm shoulder and I guarantee you you will not chamber after that.




I gurantee you that you need to train more on this and you will see.


Quote:

ALso, when I took karate. No one chambers when you spar. The second highest rank there, when he sparred punched from about half extension. Basically just had his hands like a boxer. He had more power and more speed than everyone there. I think that says something.




You think self defense is sparring? So when I get attacked me and my attacker are going to square off and dance around looking for openings. That's what I mean when I said you don't know what you're talking about.


Quote:

Also, many boxers have a lot more power in their punches than the average karate guy and they dont chamber.




That's a generalized ignorant statement.I've fought with boxers who would tell you otherwise.Boxers are in the ring boxing with gloves on. Why would they chamber?
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#146629 - 05/19/05 09:46 PM Re: The dreaded "chamber" [Re: Petjut84]
kenposan Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/23/01
Posts: 633
Loc: Columbus, Ohio
Chambering as related to punching is the most base level of understanding. Actually, IMHO, chambering has nothing to do with actually punching. The act of chambering only looks that way.

Follow this link to a wonderful article that explains the concept of chambering far better than I could:

http://www.fightingarts.com/reading/article.php?id=317
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The angry man will defeat himself in battle, as well as in life. -Samurai maxim

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#146630 - 05/19/05 11:53 PM Re: The dreaded "chamber" [Re: SANCHIN31]
Petjut84 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 102
Im glad you said first of all I dont know im talking about. That really cleared things up. I bet you i could put you in a rear bear hug and have you try to throw that elbow from your chamber and you would not be able to move at all.
"You think self defense is sparring? So when I get attacked me and my attacker are going to square off and dance around looking for openings. That's what I mean when I said you don't know what you're talking about."
I dont think he is, but I think you will. I dont think in a street situation it is necessarily easier to hit someone, actually it will be much harder for you to apply your techniques against someone who doesnt fight in the side stances and move the same way.

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#146631 - 05/20/05 12:08 AM Re: The dreaded "chamber" [Re: Petjut84]
Alejandro Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/02/02
Posts: 940
Loc: Las Cruces, NM USA
Quote:

I dont think he is, but I think you will. I dont think in a street situation it is necessarily easier to hit someone, actually it will be much harder for you to apply your techniques against someone who doesnt fight in the side stances and move the same way.




If you practice point sparring oriented techniques, and training to develop those, then it will be harder. But if you practice true okinawan self preservation karate, street situations are what the techniques are designed for. Many modern karate-ka fail on the street because they are practicing watered down tournament karate. They practice a karate that has shifted from its original intent, with its training methods changed to fit that shift, so their karate fails in the situation it was originally designed for!

I have a feeling that your experience in karate was a sport or sparring based one, not self preservation. Two entirely different ball games! If sparring and "fighting in side stances" was your karate experience, then suspect it was sport based. Old school karate is not facing off and dueling. I don't hold your opinion against you, as you base it on your experience; who doesn't? But don't be to quick to make general conclusions based on your own comparitively limited experience, when there are others here who's experience is drastically different..
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In Budo, -Al

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#146632 - 05/20/05 12:31 AM Re: The dreaded "chamber" [Re: Alejandro]
Stampede Offline
Lord of the Kazoo

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 967
Loc: El Dorado, AR
I like the chambering motion from in the clinch; let's me move arms I don't like out of my way.
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Formerly Vash

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#146633 - 05/20/05 12:55 AM Re: The dreaded "chamber" [Re: Petjut84]
SANCHIN31 Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3783
Loc: Arkansas, U.S.
Quote:

Im glad you said first of all I dont know im talking about. That really cleared things up.




No problem. Happy to oblige.


Quote:

I bet you i could put you in a rear bear hug and have you try to throw that elbow from your chamber and you would not be able to move at all.




pffft....


"You think self defense is sparring? So when I get attacked me and my attacker are going to square off and dance around looking for openings. That's what I mean when I said you don't know what you're talking about."
Quote:

I dont think he is, but I think you will. I dont think in a street situation it is necessarily easier to hit someone, actually it will be much harder for you to apply your techniques against someone who doesnt fight in the side stances and move the same way.




You are the one who wrote it!!!You said you never saw anyone chamber when they were sparring. DUH DUR DEE! You obviously can't see the forest for all the trees. You still think punching comes from the hip in karate.
_________________________
Skinny,Bald,and Handsome! Fightingarts Warrior of the year

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#146634 - 05/20/05 02:50 AM Re: The dreaded "chamber" [Re: Petjut84]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
Dude (Petju84),
Not you again! Didn't I mention in another thread that the chamber is a practice and you don't have to punch from it. It will let you learn the technique, it is much deeper that you think for practice, but you don't have to do it this way for application.

I practice the chamber, but I always throw my punches from a face guard. Like a boxer. My current instructor has a teaching certificate for boxing in Japan. My other instructor was a former amateur boxer. One of the students in our dojo was a former Naval boxer. One of my Senpai was on the U.S. Boxing team that went to Calgary in the 80s. The point is, all of these guys are practicing karate. You have no conception of what you are saying when you say that all karate styles punch a certain way...or for that matter, why all these guys who have trained in boxing are practicing karate. You make blanket statements and consider your experience the only rational explanations for your failure in karate. Don't judge me or others by your own standards. Life doesn't work that way.

You have a peculiar knack of saying something is good or agreeing with it and then launching into why you dislike it or why karate is so bad.

Just stop it. Comment on technique and explain yourself in that regard. That I can take, but stop denegrating and putting down that which you do not know about.

Get a grip. If you don't like it...don't do it. You are not here to enlighten us all on how your youth and 5 years experience gives you the rational background to tell us how things should be done and what is the most beneficial for us.

-B

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#146635 - 05/20/05 02:59 AM Re: The dreaded "chamber" [Re: butterfly]
Petjut84 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 102
He doesn't need a "cheel peel".

No more karate is bad BS period.


Edited by SANCHIN31 (05/20/05 03:11 AM)

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