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#145713 - 05/27/05 09:17 AM Re: New Styles: Good of Bad? [Re: cxt]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
Come to think of it. There's no indication on that page of how long the instructor studied KSR under Sugino-sensei either.

While it seems certain that he had solid instructors, without some idea of how long he trained and what rank he obtainedm I don't think it's a been shown that he has had solid instruction.
_________________________
Iaido - Breaking down bad habits, and building new ones.

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#145714 - 05/27/05 11:31 AM Re: New Styles: Good of Bad? [Re: Satori_Ryu]
splice Offline
Member

Registered: 01/24/05
Posts: 230
Loc: Ottawa, ON
As has already been asked, what is the point of "founding" a new style of swordsmanship which is a combination of other styles? We don't fight with the sword anymore, we preserve traditions. We don't adapt and combine them as we see fit.

The text on the page states:


Satori-Ryu Iaido was developed due to a recognized need for a quality school of instruction in the art of Iaido.


I'm sorry to say, but that is just bullsh*t. What recognized need? Who recognized that need? What's wrong with the hundreds of different Ryu that are currently taught around the world, and have traditions that span centuries?

Oh, right, Mr. Kirby knows better, and he had to make his own school. Well, that's what it comes down to; his teachers most surely didn't teach him what they knew in the hopes he would quit and form his own school.

As for his qualifications, it is strange he does not state what rank/certificate (if any) he obtained in the primary arts that he used to develop Satori Ryu.

Quote:


Renshi Kirby has not taken any rank higher then he has recieved from his instructors.





Unless there is something missing in his qualifications on that page, I don't believe this is true. He cites "Roku-Dan in Satori-Ryu Iaido". Satori-Ryu is admittedly his own creation. That rank is the highest he has in Iaido. His other Iaido rank is Renshi (2 years after yondan min.) from the IMAF. I know of no JSA Ryu that ranks under the IMAF, perhaps I can be corrected on that. So he did definitely award himself a rank in Iaido higher than any other Iaido rank he had.

And of course, to curtail any such nonsense, I am not saying anything about his martial arts skills, his ability to take me (or anyone else) down, his character, anything of that sort. Just his legitimacy.

At any rate, hyaku's quote is worth rereading again and again. Until, perhaps, you understand why it is silly to learn from someone and then ignore their teachings.

PS: Perhaps you should have someone with a bit more experience and Japanese knowledge look the page over. Whoever made it can't spell either Seitei or Eishin.

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#145715 - 05/27/05 02:25 PM Re: New Styles: Good of Bad? [Re: Charles Mahan]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5822
Loc: USA
Charles

As has been pointed out (and quite rightly--I must admit) I have a tendency to be very blunt and very aggressive with my questions.

Trying to be less harsh with my questions--just did not want the guy to think I was hammering his teacher right off the bat.

Until the situation warrents of course--if it does.
Trying to turn over a BIT of a new leaf--not signing up for electro-shock treatments


Edited by cxt (05/27/05 02:28 PM)
_________________________
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#145716 - 05/27/05 02:36 PM Re: New Styles: Good of Bad? [Re: cxt]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
Oh I hope I didn't come off harsh either. I didn't mean to be. I was just commenting on the lack of real information on the website.
_________________________
Iaido - Breaking down bad habits, and building new ones.

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#145717 - 05/27/05 04:05 PM Re: New Styles: Good of Bad? [Re: Charles Mahan]
Satori_Ryu Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/18/05
Posts: 16
Loc: Knoxville, TN, USA
Just to clarify some more information about the website, the website is for my dojo at the University of Tennessee, Knoxville that is run by Lancing England. He is very skilled at a what he does, but he have very little knowledge for the Japanese language and Romanization. This is Dale Kirby's website which currently does not have any information on Satori Ryu. Dale Kirby does hold rank of 7th Dan in Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu.

http://www.kirbyskarateacademy.com/index2.htm

The Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu Nanadan Kyoshi in Cullowhee, North Carolina would that be Gregory W. Huff? If it is, he studied under Dale Kirby for many years with my sensei.

Thank you very much for your comments, and I don't think any of you are being too harsh. At the moment, this is the only dojo that teaches authentic Japanese swordsmanship (at least in my opinion) in my area. In the future, I am take another style, but for now, I am happy with Satori Ryu.

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#145718 - 05/27/05 04:27 PM Re: New Styles: Good of Bad? [Re: Satori_Ryu]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5822
Loc: USA
Satori

Glad your happy, hard to do, find a dojo that your happy with, lord knows many folks can't find one.
So, you are already one step ahead of the game.

But I am still curious as to why a brand new style was needed or warrented?
Seems to me that there are two good legit styles already there--does not seem much need for a 3td that combines both--if thats in fact what it is.

Was something preceived as lacking?

Was it a question of just "mergeing" the styles?

What?

Also aware that you may not have that information--but your the only one we have to ask.
So I gotta ask you.
_________________________
I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won. Huey.

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#145719 - 05/27/05 06:19 PM Re: New Styles: Good of Bad? [Re: cxt]
Satori_Ryu Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/18/05
Posts: 16
Loc: Knoxville, TN, USA
Sorry cxt for not answering your question sooner, but once again I am try to post from work. I work in a call center, so sometimes I have plenty of time to replay and others I have 5 seconds. That last post took about an hour to type out in full. While I checked for gramar and spelling as much as I could, I did not put in the post as much as I wanted to. I was actually about to edit the post to put in the reason when I saw your next post.

From the information that I have been told, Dale Kirby's Japanese teachers told him to set up his own style. I have just recently reached shodan, and I have started to take more interest in the history of Iaido. I have never heard directly form Renshi Kirby as to his reasons, and his two books where writen before (1985) he started calling his style Satori Ryu.

Unfortunatly I have not been able to attend another dojo that teaches Iaido, so I don't know exactly how Satori Ryu is different from MJER, TSKSR, or any other style. I have been reading Flashing Steel: Mastering Eishin-Ryu Swordsmanship by Masayuki Shimabukuro and Iaido Sword : Kamimoto-Ha Techniques of Muso Shinden Ryu by Richard Babin as well as many different websites (which lead me here). As with anything on the internet, I take most of what I read with a grain of salt.

Charles Mahan: In answer to your question about how long time Kirby sensei spend with Sugino Sensei, he studied and lived with Sugino-sensei for several months. I don't have the exact time off the top of my head. I also don't know exactly when Kirby sensei started to study with Yamaguchi Katsuo, but I am pretty sure that he still studies under him because when I first started my training Kirby sensei was only 6th Dan, and now he is 7th Dan.

I hope that I have answered some more of your questions now, but if there is anything that is still unclear please let me know. Thank you all for the feedback that you have provided.

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#145720 - 05/27/05 10:53 PM Re: New Styles: Good of Bad? [Re: Satori_Ryu]
Charles Mahan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denton, Tx, USA
Quote:


The Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu Nanadan Kyoshi in Cullowhee, North Carolina would that be Gregory W. Huff? If it is, he studied under Dale Kirby for many years with my sensei.





Indeed. That was pre-'87 when Huff-sensei joined the Navy and got stationed in Japan for 12 years. So Kirby-sensei's association and rank is with the IMAF right? I still don't understand why he felt it necessary to create his own style. I have seen a fair amount of Huff-sensei's iai but none of Kirby-sensei. I suspect it would be interesting to compare the differences between the two.
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