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#144903 - 06/14/05 12:58 AM Re: is judo street and combat effective [Re: Ed Glasheen]
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
Whether you have read them or not, you are required to abide by the rules of the forum if you wish to keep posting here. Moderators have the right to censor or delete any post they feel is breaking the rules. Not only that, they can ban anyone they feel is breaking the rules.

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#144904 - 06/14/05 06:28 AM Re: is judo street and combat effective [Re: Leo_E_49]
MiSt Offline
Member

Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 396
I'm sorry, not sure what got into me, for some reason I felt that that post WAS directed at me, despite being almost Leo's age (but I'm sure it wasn't).

Yes I understand that the Moderators have a job to do, and I think they do a great job of it. It is greatly thanks to them that this froum is the best I have ever come across, ever day the standard of posts seems to get higher.

Once again, I'm sorry.

MiSt
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"The deeper you delve into philosophy the sadder you become."

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#144905 - 06/23/05 01:40 AM Re: is judo street and combat effective [Re: modernwarrior]
slapANDscratch Offline
Newbie

Registered: 06/22/05
Posts: 6
Judo can have its place in a fight. Boxing can have its place too just as any other fighting form can have its place. They can have their place in certain situations. Remember, when these arts were first used they were never used alone. They were always used with another form. They were all used in conjunction with something else. Jujutsu, Judo, wrestling, etc. they were never originally intended to be used in COMBAT alone. So, alone they each have their place in a given situation. What is odd is when people state that judo or jujustsu is no good if the opponent has a weapon or if there are several other people attacking you. These facts hold true for ANY art form. Unlike the movies, Bruce Lee would have problems against more than one opponent intent on harming him. He would also have a problem with people with weapons. So to single judo out for having this weakness is a joke. If other forms were great against weapons cops wouldnt need to carry guns.

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#144906 - 06/23/05 04:09 AM Re: is judo street and combat effective [Re: Leo_E_49]
Ubermint Offline
Member

Registered: 06/23/05
Posts: 154
Quote:

From my minimal Jujutsu experience, I can pick out one technique which can't be practiced live. Wrist throws can't be practised live because they are actually not really throws. They're wrist breaks taken through the complete range of motion. You have to dive roll out of them to train and so you don't risk injury you should inform your partner of what move you are doing before-hand. If used "for real" the opponent shouldn't even leave the ground, their wrist should just be dislocated. Am I right?




...Aaaaaand here comes the big one: Then how do you know it works?

You may have a distorted idea of how easy it is to control someone's wrist. I suggest you work for wrist control with a good wrestler. It's a struggle. Not easy at all.

Wait...A lot of the time when sparring at my BJJ class, wrist locks are legal. So please, make sure your arguement makes sense on your bizzaro planet before you try to apply it to earthly affairs.
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#144907 - 06/23/05 05:41 AM Re: is judo street and combat effective [Re: slapANDscratch]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
slapANDscratch made some EXCELLENT points.

Personally I think judo is a GREAT art. If you want to round it out, practice against a boxer who will work with you to develop your ability to close the distance and obtain the clinch. Thats what we have done and it works great.

-John

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#144908 - 06/23/05 05:15 PM Re: is judo street and combat effective [Re: Leo_E_49]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
I think Judo is a Combat effective art within its range, just like boxing and wrestling. Judo is a skill thats practices against a fighting opponent and once within ist range which is the clinch a Judoka is hard to beat. It has its short coming like Wrestling and Boxing in that its confided by its range and rules.

But Judo with all its throws, locks, chokes and ground work is a forminable combat sport. Boxing and Judo maybe closer in a real scent in that they can end in KO. Whereas wrestling ultimate goal is to pin you.

Add any striking art to it and you would have a complete Combat system, with some mindset modifcations.
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#144909 - 06/24/05 08:55 AM Re: is judo street and combat effective [Re: Neko456]
Budokan for fun Offline
Member

Registered: 11/28/04
Posts: 69
Loc: Tornio, Finland
Quote:

I think Judo is a Combat effective art within its range, just like boxing and wrestling. Judo is a skill thats practices against a fighting opponent and once within ist range which is the clinch a Judoka is hard to beat. It has its short coming like Wrestling and Boxing in that its confided by its range and rules.

But Judo with all its throws, locks, chokes and ground work is a forminable combat sport. Boxing and Judo maybe closer in a real scent in that they can end in KO. Whereas wrestling ultimate goal is to pin you.

Add any striking art to it and you would have a complete Combat system, with some mindset modifcations.




Totally agree.
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#144910 - 06/24/05 10:30 AM Re: is judo street and combat effective [Re: Budokan for fun]
MiSt Offline
Member

Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 396
This is all very well but according to Goeff Thompson (Really knows his stuff IMHO) grappling range should be trained for because "It can be lost quicker than virginity in Springfields" (lol)

BUT it should not be seeked in a 'street' fight, boxing range is the range to try and stay in.

http://www.geoffthompson.com/
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"The deeper you delve into philosophy the sadder you become."

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#144911 - 06/25/05 02:17 PM Re: is judo street and combat effective [Re: Ubermint]
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
Quote:

Quote:

From my minimal Jujutsu experience, I can pick out one technique which can't be practiced live. Wrist throws can't be practised live because they are actually not really throws. They're wrist breaks taken through the complete range of motion. You have to dive roll out of them to train and so you don't risk injury you should inform your partner of what move you are doing before-hand. If used "for real" the opponent shouldn't even leave the ground, their wrist should just be dislocated. Am I right?




...Aaaaaand here comes the big one: Then how do you know it works?

You may have a distorted idea of how easy it is to control someone's wrist. I suggest you work for wrist control with a good wrestler. It's a struggle. Not easy at all.

Wait...A lot of the time when sparring at my BJJ class, wrist locks are legal. So please, make sure your arguement makes sense on your bizzaro planet before you try to apply it to earthly affairs.




I train other moves against resisting opponents. I'm not saying you can't do a wrist lock against a resisting opponent, although smaller joint manipulations are difficult in such a situation. I'm talking about a wrist throw, where you lock someone and purposefully overextend their wrist. Perhaps you could tell me how I can train this very useful move against someone who didn't know I was going to do the move, without injuring them every time? How can I tell it's going to work? I guess I could go out and pick a few fights but I'm not that stupid. (Some people in my Dojo have been put out of action for a number of lessons because their training partners forgot to tell them before the throw).

Judo removed a lot of moves from Jujutsu because of just this situation. Practicing this technique against a resisting opponent would result in a high rate of injury. I'd rather know the technique than not know it though, might come in handy sometime.
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#144912 - 06/25/05 04:18 PM Re: is judo street and combat effective [Re: MiSt]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Quote:


boxing range is the range to try and stay in.





Mist -

Just curious as to why you feel that way? I don't think the "boxing range" is the better range to stay in if your opponent is a better boxer. If he's bigger, that's just going to mean a quicker knock-out. It's exactly THEN when you need to crash and take your opponent down (obviously judo and wrestling offer the greatest tools for such a job).


-John

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