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#144177 - 10/15/05 01:36 PM Re: Whats Krav maga? [Re: Winter]
Tolyn1007 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/02/05
Posts: 113
Loc: SF Bay Area
A little more on the history and development of Krav Maga. Imi Lichtenfeld grew up in Germany during the rise of Nazism. His father owned a gym and he was already and accomplished gymnist and boxer. As Nazi persecution against Jews became more prevalent, he began putting together a system of self-defense to teach others so that they could protect themselves from attacks against Nazi youth gangs. Because of the times, he didn't have years to teach people how to defend themselves and the system was developed to be simple and effective. It took instinctive responses (like instinctively raising your hands to your throat if someone is choking you) and turned them into trained responses (like the pluck used in a basic choke defense). It was named Krav Maga (Hebrew for Contact Combat). When Israel was formed, the Israeli military adopted the system for their use. KM relies on a fast, aggressive and decisive counter-attacks to any attack so that when you disengage your attacker isn't going to get up and come back at you a second time.

It's been my opinion that the physical conditioning portion of Krav Maga is vital to the overall system. The minimum level of cardio fitness you should be in is to be able to fight off multiple attackers for at least 90 seconds (for us, that's the average time it takes to get assistance, if you're by yourself then you're going to need longer). That doesn't seem like a lot of time but we run a drill called bull-in-the-ring where the student has to fend off multiple attackers for 90 seconds and it isn't often that I have one of them not be huffing and puffing in the end. I want my people to go home to their families at the end of their shifts so I spend at least 30 minutes of a two hour class working on cardio plus various stress drills throughout to keep me entertained...oh, I mean keep them engaged in the class. I think the problem with the LA style KM schools is that they try and market KM like you would Tae Bo (or whatever the hell that cardio kickboxing fad was called) with a self-defense element and that waters it down.

I do think that the "aggresiveness" of the counter-attacks in KM is appropriate to the US today. The techniques being taught are used for self-defense, more often then not when someone is using a level of force against you that is intended to cause either great bodily injury or death. As long as you aren't the primary agressor (meaning you didn't start the fight) then in most states, you are well within your rights to defend yourself.

I know some of that was repeat info but I wanted to chime in.
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~Tolyn~ www.tolynsworld.com

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#144178 - 10/15/05 04:11 PM Re: Whats Krav maga? [Re: Tolyn1007]
retzef Offline
Member

Registered: 05/18/05
Posts: 43
Quote:

I think the problem with the LA style KM schools is that they try and market KM like you would Tae Bo (or whatever the hell that cardio kickboxing fad was called) with a self-defense element and that waters it down.

I do think that the "aggresiveness" of the counter-attacks in KM is appropriate to the US today. The techniques being taught are used for self-defense, more often then not when someone is using a level of force against you that is intended to cause either great bodily injury or death. As long as you aren't the primary agressor (meaning you didn't start the fight) then in most states, you are well within your rights to defend yourself.

I know some of that was repeat info but I wanted to chime in.




Excellent point. I have moved around the US this year and I have been so dissappointed in the LA licensees. I don't mind them licensing KM but they make it so difficult for those of us trained in Israel or those of us trained by instructors who trained in Israel. It seems that they are more worried that talented Israeli KM Black Belts are going to take their money rather than worry about following up on the watered down version of KM being taught by a large # of their licensees. Notice I said large # and not all. There are a small handful of schools and instructors that I consider excellent teachers and would train with if I lived in their neighborhood.
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So that we may walk in Peace.

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#144179 - 10/15/05 05:25 PM Re: Whats Krav maga? [Re: retzef]
ShikataGaNai Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1163
Loc: Bellingham, WA
are there that many schools teaching KM in LA? the only one i've heard of is the main one started by Darren Levine - as far as i know the only american to be personally given a grandmaster rank by lichtenfeld. my instructors went through his course to get their certificates. i'm kind of thinking about doing the same thing (way down the line), but i think i'd prefer the IKMf camp in netanya.
this is all j.lo's fault, isn't it???

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#144180 - 10/16/05 06:55 AM Re: Whats Krav maga? [Re: ShikataGaNai]
retzef Offline
Member

Registered: 05/18/05
Posts: 43
Quote:

are there that many schools teaching KM in LA? the only one i've heard of is the main one started by Darren Levine - as far as i know the only american to be personally given a grandmaster rank by lichtenfeld. my instructors went through his course to get their certificates. i'm kind of thinking about doing the same thing (way down the line), but i think i'd prefer the IKMf camp in netanya.
this is all j.lo's fault, isn't it???




Darren Levine is a great instructor and has a special "founders diploma" because of his special contribution to increasing awareness of KM. He is the Chief instructor of KMAA (america). There are several people here in North America that are equal or better than him in their KM training. He is not a "Grandmaster", to my knowledge the only ones are Hiam Gidon (IKMA) and Eyal Yanilov(IKMF) and the late Eli Avikgor(spelling error probably)((Krav Magen).
There are Israelis teaching KM throughout the US and LA too but it will take some effort to find the schools because Darren's organization copyrighted the name Krav Maga and KM instructors trained abroad get sued when they use the name KM in the US.
Training in Netanya with the IKMA or IKMF is an experience of a lifetime. ( I don't have any knowledge of how the other organizations run there training in Netanya)
_________________________
So that we may walk in Peace.

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#144181 - 10/16/05 12:20 PM Re: Whats Krav maga? [Re: retzef]
Tolyn1007 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/02/05
Posts: 113
Loc: SF Bay Area
Mr. Levine is an excellent teacher. When I say LA style I'm not talking about his training center which just happens to be located in LA. I'm referring to those schools that focus more on appearance and marketing then they do instruction and self-defense. The Hollywood mentality where the illusion is more important then the actual content.
_________________________
~Tolyn~ www.tolynsworld.com

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#144182 - 10/16/05 08:28 PM Re: Whats Krav maga? [Re: Tolyn1007]
ShikataGaNai Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1163
Loc: Bellingham, WA
whoops, yeah i really put my foot in my mouth with the "grandmaster" thing. i read the history and development of krav so long ago, i've forgotten many of the details and facts. i honestly am pretty disenchanted with the whole liscensing thing. my school does it, but i've heard them express greivances about it - mainly when it comes to fees vs. support. they do an excellent job teaching krav, sifu kat is truly an amazing and accomplished individual. i wish they were allowed to teach without being bound to this organization (no disrespect to mr. levine's teachings). it is truly unfortunate these days that business so often compromises education, martial or otherwise.

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