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#144157 - 05/19/05 01:12 PM Re: Whats Krav maga? [Re: SANCHIN31]
clammy joe Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/05
Posts: 112
Quote:

Quote:

As my instructor said, "You're not here to learn how to fight, you're here to learn how to beat the crap out of people."




Neither one sounds like self defense to me.




He simply means once you decide you must fight than you shouldn't stop till the attacker is on the ground and unable or unwilling to get up. He usually comments on this when people get tired or too fancy in class and aren't aggressive. We aren't training for a boxing match, we're learning to protect ourselves from violent assault.

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#144158 - 05/20/05 03:26 AM Re: Whats Krav maga? [Re: clammy joe]
SANCHIN31 Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3783
Loc: Arkansas, U.S.
Quote:



He simply means once you decide you must fight than you shouldn't stop till the attacker is on the ground and unable or unwilling to get up. He usually comments on this when people get tired or too fancy in class and aren't aggressive. We aren't training for a boxing match, we're learning to protect ourselves from violent assault.




I understand that and being aggressive until you are safe is good,but saying he's teaching you to "beat the crap out of people" sounds like someone looking for fights not avoiding them.
_________________________
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#144159 - 05/20/05 08:06 AM Re: Whats Krav maga? [Re: SANCHIN31]
globetrotter Offline
does unto others before they do unto him

Registered: 01/10/05
Posts: 637
Loc: ny usa
I think that this comes back to the roots of KM. in the IDF, any drill ends with "verifying the kill" - making sure that you have killed your target. KM isn't about bloodying somebodies nose, it is about taking them off active duty.

I don't think that is nessasarily bad. in a lot of dojos, and I can say this about the McDojo that I go to now, I am not sure that your average black belt could really deal with a fight on the street. students are often tought that if they do move A and move B then the fight will be over. in KM, you are tought to keep throwing firepower until you have evidence that your opponent is down.

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#144160 - 05/20/05 12:07 PM Re: Whats Krav maga? [Re: globetrotter]
RangerG Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 04/18/05
Posts: 1026
Loc: Chester County, Pennsylvania
Quote:

I think that this comes back to the roots of KM. in the IDF, any drill ends with "verifying the kill" - making sure that you have killed your target. KM isn't about bloodying somebodies nose, it is about taking them off active duty.

I don't think that is nessasarily bad. in a lot of dojos, and I can say this about the McDojo that I go to now, I am not sure that your average black belt could really deal with a fight on the street. students are often tought that if they do move A and move B then the fight will be over. in KM, you are tought to keep throwing firepower until you have evidence that your opponent is down.




I would respecfuly ask if the IDF Krav level of response is appropriate here in the U.S.?

The attitude at our dojo is to avoid the conflict if at all possible, If not, we respond with only enough force to escape the situation...with the exception of knife or firearm where the clear intent was to kill you.

Keep in mind however, if there is clear evidence that you could have disengaged and escaped, but you chose to kill your attacker..you will be the one in court facing the murder charge.

I do not wish to "beat the crap" out of anyone if I can avoid it. I only wish to protect myself and loved ones should I or they come under attack.

Has it not been the attitude of the old masters for one to respect others and avoid conflict? A fight is the last possible response, when all other methods of conflict avoidance have been exhausted.

I try to live in peace and harmony as much as possible. I can however understand the IDF attitude. If the U.S. becomes the subject of daily attacks, then I would agree the attitude here would require modification to meet that threat level.

Until that time, I will continue to smile and avoid fighting where possible.
_________________________
"If you're gonna be stupid, you better be tough."

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#144161 - 05/20/05 01:02 PM Re: Whats Krav maga? [Re: RangerG]
globetrotter Offline
does unto others before they do unto him

Registered: 01/10/05
Posts: 637
Loc: ny usa
excellent points, Ranger,

first, I am not sure that KM, as I was tought it, has a real place in the US system of martial arts. it may be too rough around the edges.

but, like you, I do not lok for fights. I haven't been in what could be called a personal street fight in my adult life. I will do pretty much everything that I can to avoid violence, inlcuding going a few steps farther than most, I believe. so, if I am in a fight, it is because somebody has attacked me. Now, I am a short fat old man. if somebody has attacked me, he probrably thought that he was going to be able to inflict violence on me, and get away. I am assuming that he will be younger than I, and he has attacked me for no good reason, leading me to the understanding that he is agressive. so I am going to throw what ever I can at him, I am not going to put him in a wrist hold and say "had enough?" and then step on his foot and say "had enough?" I will probrably try to break mulitple bones in his lower limbs, hit him in the eyes and throat and ear drums, get him on the ground and apply my nice heavy boots and my 280 pounds to what ever part of his anatomy comes handy. if, while I am doing that, I understand that he is out of commision, I will stop and run. If I think that there is any chance that when I start to run he will get up and come after me (on the assumption that he will run faster than me) I am going to make sure that that doesn't happen.

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#144162 - 05/20/05 02:25 PM Re: Whats Krav maga? [Re: globetrotter]
retzef Offline
Member

Registered: 05/18/05
Posts: 43
Its a self defense system..The McDojo's sell it as a MA.

I like the rough edges. As a former New York City resident and a manager in a high profile target area, I have to diasagree that KM use of force is not needed. A lot of situations in Israel are diffused by "regular" citizens, not uniformed or "on duty" personnel. KM teaches awareness and how to survive when the odds are not in your favor.
I assume multiple attackers instead of just one person attacking. I assume that the criminal has a back up weapon. I will not pick a fight but I will end one. I am much smaller than the average person and I damn well will not win a prolonged fight, so I must make quick and decisive decisions about protecting my life and whatever third party I am with.
_________________________
So that we may walk in Peace.

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#144163 - 05/20/05 09:06 PM Re: Whats Krav maga? [Re: retzef]
Plantman Offline
Member

Registered: 05/20/05
Posts: 62
Loc: Maimi
With all due respect, the LA Fitmess type places that are affilited with Kravmaga usa are the ones that sell it as a MA.

The israeli Krav maga instructors work out sometimes in cramped, dusty hot rooms with concrete floors, sort of like an old musty boxing gym and they do not sell it as a MA, but a self defense system. We are taught to walk away whenever possible, but if forced to fight, be prepared to go all out. If you can breathe you can fight.

The Krav Maga that has been watered down in the states consists of lots of aerobics, very little "technique" and a lot of fluff.

Do we do cardio aerobics,? Yes, briefly to loosen up. After that, it's all technique for the rest of the hour.

I have seen some people who have trained in the LA fitness type gyms for months that are far inferior to people of the same experience in the rat hole gyms.

My point is that there is s huge difference in the methods tought by different organizations. I am sure this exists in other disciplines as well.

I am a proud member and student of the Israeli Krav Maga Association.
.02
_________________________
Be safe, If not kick someones ass.

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#144164 - 05/27/05 08:12 PM Re: Whats Krav maga? [Re: Plantman]
kyokushinkai Offline
Member

Registered: 05/27/05
Posts: 327
Loc: Prince Edward Island , Canada
so basically I am in karate and im assuming that krav maga isnt a boundried thing and if i wanted to i would really only have to use my brain ( to know where to hit people..not that hard throat stomach etc.) and that dont stop because you hit them twice keep going until there is no chance of them harming you or endagering your life.. if the situation is right killing them is the thing you must do.. and that you should run when you can ( my teacher goes really far to make sure we dont fight and when we do fight he makes sure we didn't start it and that we used the appropriate level of force .. the reason he can check is because he teaches in the school I go to so he knows what happened). am i right or???

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#144165 - 05/27/05 09:31 PM Re: Whats Krav maga? [Re: kyokushinkai]
retzef Offline
Member

Registered: 05/18/05
Posts: 43
What exactly is your question?
Not to be rude or anything but I couldn't tell where the quote ended and the question began.
_________________________
So that we may walk in Peace.

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#144166 - 06/23/05 11:15 AM Re: Whats Krav maga? [Re: Plantman]
MA_Man Offline
Newbie

Registered: 06/23/05
Posts: 6
Quote:

With all due respect, the LA Fitmess type places that are affilited with Kravmaga usa are the ones that sell it as a MA.

The israeli Krav maga instructors work out sometimes in cramped, dusty hot rooms with concrete floors, sort of like an old musty boxing gym and they do not sell it as a MA, but a self defense system. We are taught to walk away whenever possible, but if forced to fight, be prepared to go all out. If you can breathe you can fight.

The Krav Maga that has been watered down in the states consists of lots of aerobics, very little "technique" and a lot of fluff.
.02




I'm in the states. How can I find one of these places?

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