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#143995 - 05/14/05 11:16 PM TKD vs. Ju_jitsu
Ju_Jitsu_kid Offline
Member

Registered: 05/14/05
Posts: 48
Loc: New York, New York
Ive been training under a Ju_jitsu Sensei for almost 6 years now, and Recently ive been attending some small underground competetions of course unsanctioned by any major organization just lots of martial arts enthusiasts.... anyway, these seems to be a surplus of TKD guys there. All the fights are put into experience category 1-2 yrs 3-4.. etc Ive fought 27 TKD guys, never lost once, im not that good of a fighter, I mean im not a noob but theres always more to learn and I see my own flaws, but TKD fighters, the art itself seems to be inpractical , 7 foot kicks in the air dont really effect me much as I rush in for a slam or a sweep, which they have little to no defense against, not to offend any TKD people but whats the deal

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#143996 - 05/14/05 11:24 PM Re: TKD vs. Ju_jitsu [Re: Ju_Jitsu_kid]
Apeus Offline
Member

Registered: 04/07/05
Posts: 50
The deal is TKD became an Olympic sport. Thus causing many people to open and join schools bases solely on what the Olympic rules are and winning Olympic tournaments. The kicks you see many TKD people do will work against other sport TKD people. I do a TKD that is more like a traditional martial art. We don't do crazy spinning kicks, or anything like that. We teach alot of hand techniques, blocks, takedowns, grappling, low kicks, knees, elbows, etc. Do we do some kicks to the head, sure, but most martial arts do. Most TKD schools make me sick.

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#143997 - 05/14/05 11:31 PM Re: TKD vs. Ju_jitsu [Re: Ju_Jitsu_kid]
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
I reckon it won't be long before this thread is closed. The "deal" is that TKD is a standup striking art. That's what we train for. If you take a sprinter and make him run a marathon, he's not going to do very well is he? Same goes for TKD and groundwork.
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#143998 - 05/14/05 11:32 PM Re: TKD vs. Ju_jitsu [Re: Apeus]
Ju_Jitsu_kid Offline
Member

Registered: 05/14/05
Posts: 48
Loc: New York, New York
Now see your Particular Style of TKD sounds like it has some useage in Real life situations. The olympic style of TKD I would never ever call a Martial Art, it doesnt fit the definition of the word, I would call it a sport.... The guys I fought were absolutly GREAT, very balanced very fit, excellent to watch, useless vs. me not to toot my own horn. All of you TKD guys who practice the version of TKD that I described, plz do not risk embareassment at a Multiple MA competetion, plain and simple

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#143999 - 05/14/05 11:41 PM Re: TKD vs. Ju_jitsu [Re: Ju_Jitsu_kid]
Ju_Jitsu_kid Offline
Member

Registered: 05/14/05
Posts: 48
Loc: New York, New York
Im just saying AS A "martial art" Students of TKD should be trained for ground work, as well and stand up fighting. I mean if some poor sap who knows TKD gets cought up on the street and uses what he knows , then ends up on the floor and gets beat because of what he Dident know. ALL MA's should train the student for every possible situation, of course thats impossible, so you fill that gap with one word, Adaptation, every fighter should be able to adapt to everything, thats one of the things that makes a great fighter great .........Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless--like water.
Now you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup,
You put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle,
You put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Now water can *flow* or it can *crash*!
Be water, my friend. - Bruce Lee

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#144000 - 05/14/05 11:46 PM Re: TKD vs. Ju_jitsu [Re: Ju_Jitsu_kid]
DefenselessChild Offline
Member

Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 103
I gotta agree with Apeus on this one. There are way too many TKD "fighters" running around without any clue what a real fight is like. They think just because sparring in their school is conducted with all sorts of limits that real fighting is just like that. However, there are people like Apeus running around who know what they're doing.

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#144001 - 05/15/05 12:47 AM Re: TKD vs. Ju_jitsu [Re: DefenselessChild]
robot Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 24
Loc: NJ
i cant believe 27.That just ALOT i mean 27.Either they cant fight or your sperb.Because 27 is alot of people and it must of atleast made you tired. 27!!

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#144002 - 05/15/05 12:49 AM Re: TKD vs. Ju_jitsu [Re: robot]
Ju_Jitsu_kid Offline
Member

Registered: 05/14/05
Posts: 48
Loc: New York, New York
not in one night, 27 over the course of 6 weeks,

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#144003 - 05/15/05 01:09 AM Re: TKD vs. Ju_jitsu [Re: Ju_Jitsu_kid]
robot Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 24
Loc: NJ
LOL SHOULD OF KNOW THAT

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#144004 - 05/15/05 01:12 AM Re: TKD vs. Ju_jitsu [Re: robot]
Ju_Jitsu_kid Offline
Member

Registered: 05/14/05
Posts: 48
Loc: New York, New York
27 in one night would make me .... well like a machine, one might call me a Robot perhaps ?

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#144005 - 05/15/05 03:26 AM Re: TKD vs. Ju_jitsu [Re: Ju_Jitsu_kid]
SANCHIN31 Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3783
Loc: Arkansas, U.S.
Quote:

27 in one night would make me .... well like a machine, one might call me a Robot perhaps ?




VTG anyone?

p.s. What's that I smell?
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#144006 - 05/15/05 10:05 AM Re: TKD vs. Ju_jitsu [Re: Ju_Jitsu_kid]
TimBlack Offline
Exalted

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 1403
Loc: UK, Brighton
Apeus is right, there's too much 'tricking' and olympic style sparring around. If you get me, or Apeus I suspect, in a fight we'll smash your kneecap or break your leg. That's what we train for. Apart from taking out your legs, we'll use sidekicks to keep our distance when we need to, and use hand strikes for everything else.

Good Taekwon-do practitioners are well aware of how vulnerable high kicks are. So we don't tend to use them. Smash someone's kneecap and they drop. Doesn't matter how drugged-up they are or how tough.

So, good TKD practitioners are good. Bad practitioners are bad. Just like any martial arts. Also, on the point of a lack of ground fighting, this is correct. However, TKD is inevitably combined with Hapkido somewhere down the road (ask most high Dan trainers), and Hapkido is very effective for ground fighting.
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#144007 - 05/15/05 11:49 AM Re: TKD vs. Ju_jitsu [Re: SANCHIN31]
Ju_Jitsu_kid Offline
Member

Registered: 05/14/05
Posts: 48
Loc: New York, New York
Sanchin you really are an idiot, Robot suggested that I had fought 27 guys in one night, i said that was false I recorded my tournaments of the course of 6 weeks, , he said he should have realized that, and I joked by saying 27 in one night would make me a ROBOT , jeez man, read the post before you accuseing me of being a virtual tough guy...

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#144008 - 05/16/05 01:03 AM Re: TKD vs. Ju_jitsu [Re: TimBlack]
Hedgehogey Offline
Member

Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 274
While we've seen TKDists beaten several times on video under all sorts of rules, nevertheless I have to say that our friend Nutrider Mcgillicuddy here, is probably trying to siphon off some of the glory from MMA. See, you occasionally find these people claiming absurd fight records in things like "The UFC fight thing". When they find out you actually train and compete, they'll give you this patheticomic expression that's suitable for framing.

That, or he's just trolling.

However:
Quote:

Good Taekwon-do practitioners are well aware of how vulnerable high kicks are. So we don't tend to use them. Smash someone's kneecap and they drop. Doesn't matter how drugged-up they are or how tough.




This is one of those MA urban legends, like driving pieces of nose cartilage into the brain, or the "death touch".

Look, I do muay thai. We block kicks WITH our knee. We WANT people to kick at our kneecaps (the thigh is much more vulnerable).

I can accept that you may injure the ACL of a fighting retard by kicking the side of their knee.

But a side kick to the kneecap? A dog turd in your tea, good sir.

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#144009 - 05/16/05 02:53 AM Re: TKD vs. Ju_jitsu [Re: Ju_Jitsu_kid]
SANCHIN31 Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3783
Loc: Arkansas, U.S.
Quote:

Sanchin you really are an idiot, Robot suggested that I had fought 27 guys in one night, i said that was false I recorded my tournaments of the course of 6 weeks, , he said he should have realized that, and I joked by saying 27 in one night would make me a ROBOT , jeez man, read the post before you accuseing me of being a virtual tough guy...




I did read the post braniac. Do you really believe everything you've written kid?
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#144010 - 05/16/05 07:56 AM Re: TKD vs. Ju_jitsu [Re: SANCHIN31]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5823
Loc: USA

I seriously think the person that even starts a topic with asking "TKD vs JKD" (pick the styles of your choice) should be banned.
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#144011 - 05/16/05 08:55 PM Re: TKD vs. Ju_jitsu [Re: SANCHIN31]
pride_fan Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 12
(judo + ju jitsu make an excellent combo in general imo)

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#144012 - 05/17/05 01:42 AM Re: TKD vs. Ju_jitsu [Re: cxt]
SANCHIN31 Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3783
Loc: Arkansas, U.S.
Quote:


I seriously think the person that even starts a topic with asking "TKD vs JKD" (pick the styles of your choice) should be banned.




I'm down with that!
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Skinny,Bald,and Handsome! Fightingarts Warrior of the year

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#144013 - 05/17/05 08:22 AM Re: TKD vs. Ju_jitsu [Re: Hedgehogey]
fmorris Offline
Newbie

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 17
I've been sidekicked in the knee twice. The first time it tore the cartilage in my knee and I had to have surgery. Immediately after it happened I was able to stand but could not bend my knee and could not move. The second time I was blocking a back kick with my knee. It struck the top of the kneecap and dropped me. After several weeks of limping I went to a physical therapist who found that my kneecap had been shifted out of the groove that it moves up and down in. It also put small cracks in the patella and it now has bone spurs on it. I was in therapy for several months to correct the problem.

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#144014 - 05/17/05 09:05 AM Re: TKD vs. Ju_jitsu [Re: Ju_Jitsu_kid]
pwrkikn Offline
Member

Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 38
Loc: Virginia
I think I am fortunate. I hapen to train at a TKD Dojang that focus's on both Olympic and traditional. Sure it is called a WTF sschool for sake of competition.

My master holds an 8th degree in TKD (not Olympic as he was 8th degree before Olympics) and 5th in HKD. As well as a certified trainer of Tai Chi.

Jujitsu is a different style of MA altogether. You can't match Indy Car against Nascar and have a fair race. The TKD practitioners you fight must not know the difference between comp and fighting.

No offense or not to knock your skills, but any "well-trained" TKD practitioner knows when and where to use certain styles of kicks. If they do jumping and spinning kicks in a MMA style of fight, well they deserve to lose.

BUT, I assure you, you get in a ring with one who knows the difference and you will see a completely different type of fighter. I have been accused of "not using TKD" in our own little "fight clubs." The only formal training I have had was TKD WTF and yet I know and understand how to fight a grappler. I may not be good enough to win a grapple match, but I know enough to make the grappler WORK for it.

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#144015 - 05/17/05 09:43 AM Re: TKD vs. Ju_jitsu [Re: TimBlack]
Gemini Offline
Member

Registered: 11/28/04
Posts: 333
Loc: NY, USA
I love these threads that bash an art based on minimal knowledge of that art. Even by those that have practiced the art for a few years and proclaim to know everything the art entails. Get a clue. Just opening your mouth says you know squat.

Sport TKD is not the same as SD TKD. They're 2 different animals. Stop trying to put a square peg in a round hole. You look foolish. If you're not into it, fine. Then stay away from it. But don't slam it. There are alot of people that do like it, and have every bit as much right as you do to practice what appeals to them. You're no better or worse than anyone else here so get of you high horse.

TimBlack, you're comment about "TKD is inevitably combined with Hapkido somewhere down the road" is pretty close. More accurately, "TKD incorporates a Hapkido like style in itself down the road" would be better, but at least you sound like you're learning from someone who knows the art. Not one of these "I'm a 1st Dan and know everything so I'll open my own school" frauds.

And

"good TKD practitioners are good. Bad practitioners are bad. Just like any martial arts." Good summation.

Last. I wouldn't recommend calling someone like Sanchin31 an idiot. He's well respected on this forum for a reason. He knows what he's talking about. Maybe if you keep your name calling and comments to a minimum and spend a little more time reading, you might actually learn something.

Regards,

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#144016 - 05/17/05 09:55 PM Re: TKD vs. Ju_jitsu [Re: Gemini]
xxjinhyungxx Offline
Member

Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 41
"I love these threads that bash an art based on minimal knowledge of that art. Even by those that have practiced the art for a few years and proclaim to know everything the art entails. Get a clue. Just opening your mouth says you know squat. " - Gemini
yup yup i have to agree 100% on that one


late post but, nice win 27-0
just thought it would be important to add though, that sometimes even with your 27/27 Wins against TKD guys doesnt necessarily mean TKD is a bad MA. in fact most ppl dont even consider it a MA because the only time they see it is on Olympics or walk around going to dojang's and see sparring.
because if you faught in a ring or any enclosed area, that is always the advantage for the grappler. you see it all the time in striking vs grappling, strikers need alot of room, for example i cant do a back hook kick when im crammed in a corner, but to the grappler it is more advantageous as they can clinch easier since opponent cant move. and another example is if you are charging up on the TKD guy and obviously lets just say he got "frightened" and started backing away, well he only gets about 2 steps back before he hits outside the matts (so the fight starts in the center again or if u want to be professional, he gets a warning and lets just say 2 warnings = loss) or he hits the ropes and then is just going to get owned as he has not as much, if not none, experience in closed spaces/clinch.
good wins though, 27-0 is never an easy task. i just wanted to add that b/c i lost to wrestlers in enclosed areas, but large areas i was able to rape.


jINhYunG ahN

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#144017 - 05/22/05 12:31 AM Re: TKD vs. Ju_jitsu [Re: xxjinhyungxx]
kaimetsu Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 9
This seems like the perfect thread to explain what happened to me a few days ago and ask for advice. I've been taking TKD for around 6 months now and i'm fairly certain it isnt a "Mcdojo" that i attend, theres almost no emphasis on the sports aspect, the cost of the class isnt much, we don't learn any jumping or turning kicks or any of that crap, and a little bit of every class is dedicated to practicing real life self defense situations. From what i've read it seems most TKD schools BS their students and the real style has gotten a bad reputation because of this.
Anyway a few days ago i was in a conversation with a cousin of mine who has been taking Juijitsu and Jeet kun do for around a year, when i mentioned i've been taking Tae kwon do he told me in no uncertain terms that he thought it sucked, what bothered me the worst was when he said "Tae kwon do is for girls" which he apparently believes very strongly. He explained to me that from what he had heard from people in his classes, all the TKD students that they had encountered sucked. We got into a little bit of a sparring match, I was afraid of actually hitting him so i threw a weak belt level sidekick which he blocked and he basically ran into me backing me into a wall, i tried to block his hand motions but he was at very close range and i couldnt backup cause of the wall behind me. His hand motions made it hard for me to block and i was hesitant to throw any solid punches cause i didnt want to actually hit him. Any suggestions on what i could do if i ever get into this situation again?


Edited by kaimetsu (05/22/05 12:36 AM)

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#144018 - 05/22/05 06:52 AM Re: TKD vs. Ju_jitsu [Re: kaimetsu]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
use your knees, elbows and palm strikes to the face. These are all part of the Chang Hon colour belt syllabus (don't know about WTF, but I suspect they are). If he gets you in a waist hold, elbow his spine or neck. Too many people forget about these things. (of course, just hard enough to let him know). Incidentally, I have seen jumping spinning kicks (and that kind of crap) used effectively as a technique for getting away from an advancing opponent while also counter striking. WTF guys use it well when a Chang Hon guy gets too close with the hands.
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#144019 - 05/22/05 06:54 AM Re: TKD vs. Ju_jitsu [Re: kaimetsu]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
Of course, your biggest mistake was the one he didn't make... being half-hearted. A weak side kick is an invitation and the kind of thing JJ-er's ask from Santa Claus
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See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

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#144020 - 05/22/05 07:42 PM Re: TKD vs. Ju_jitsu [Re: trevek]
kaimetsu Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 9
Thanks for the advice, sorry if i insulted jumping and turning kicks. Just that i've been taught that anytime both feet leave the ground it becomes easy for the opponent to control my movement, sidestep or throw me or whatever, balance and power are emphasized more than anything else. And anytime i turn my back to an opponent thats an opportunity for him to get free hits on me.

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#144021 - 05/22/05 10:44 PM Re: TKD vs. Ju_jitsu [Re: Ju_Jitsu_kid]
Carbone Offline
Member

Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 161
Loc: New York
A ground fighter has A LOT better chance of beating a standing fighter. Think of it this way....

1) It's easier for a ground fighter to keep his opponent down (where he's trained at), than for the standing fighter to keep his opponent up (where hes trained at)

2) ground fighters fight better standing up, than most standing fighter fight on the floor

3) ground fighters usually know submissions, standing fighters usually dont
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#144022 - 05/24/05 04:47 PM Re: TKD vs. Ju_jitsu [Re: kaimetsu]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
Quite right, they aren't to be used without thinking, or half heartedly. I've generally seen them as effective when having to counter and move at the same time. I don't think I'd ever 'attack' with one.
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See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

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#144023 - 05/25/05 03:04 AM Re: TKD vs. Ju_jitsu [Re: trevek]
TimBlack Offline
Exalted

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 1403
Loc: UK, Brighton
Yup all you had to do was actually go for him. The problem is that people who do this kind of pointless 'my art is better than your art' babble are usually friends of ours etc.. The best thing to do is just ignore it - after all, "I shall never misuse Taekwon-do"
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#144024 - 05/25/05 02:10 PM Re: TKD vs. Ju_jitsu [Re: TimBlack]
john739 Offline
Stranger

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 1
I took TKD for a few years 24 years ago and have started again just recentlly. From the training I had 24 years ago in TKD as a martial art (not sport) the first thing I would say that was wrong with your altercation was you let it turn into an altercation. All martial arts have good points no one martial art is better then the other they are simply different. All MA that I know teach you to avoid the altercation unless absolutly required. I will admit I have had to defend myself twice and my TKD skills allowed me to end the altercation very quickly without me being hurt and the other person simply having the breath knocked out of them.

My suggestion is next time someone degrades TKD as a whole simply walk away, you are not going to convince them otherwise even if you were to knock thier block off (if for no other reason then they probablly do not use thier head anyway). If they insult you personally ask yourself if you really care what the person insulting you thinks. If the person is an idiot who cares what he thinks. Not responding many times makes that person look more foolish then actually acting against him.

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#144025 - 05/27/05 08:13 PM Re: TKD vs. Ju_jitsu [Re: john739]
littlebadboy Offline
Newbie

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 13
Loc: Lake County, Illinois
TKD isnot that bad... it all depends in the fighter.

Juras, a famous polish ITF TKD practitioner beat up a Jiujitsu guy, a Judo guy, a kickboxer, a karateka dude... and etc.

Enjoy the video!
http://www.tkd.risp.pl/Juras_HL_Extreme.wmv
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#144026 - 08/01/05 01:18 AM Re: TKD vs. Ju_jitsu [Re: littlebadboy]
Spin_Hook Offline
Member

Registered: 07/07/05
Posts: 45
Comparing TKD to Jujitsu is kind of useless anyways. You can't really say one is better just because a representative of one style happens to best a few representatives of another style. I'm pretty sure a man like Gracie would have been a world class fighter no matter what discipline he'd chosen because of his mental drive. It doesn't make Ju-jitsu inherently a great art...it means that it suited Gracie well and he used it well. I think a lot of Ju-jitsu guys would, in turn, have their hands full with Evander Holyfield whether or not he knew how to throw an armbar out of bottom guard or not. Because Evander knows how to punch and he uses his weapons well.

Chuck Liddell has proven that you can do very well in MMA relying heavily on stand up striking. I know he's not technically TKD, but close enough for the example to hold up. Of course, in my own personal opinion, ULTIMATE FIGHTER sucks as a gimmick.

If you beat 27 TKD guys I would doubt it had very much to do with their TKD and your Ju-Jitsu...you're probably simply a better fighter and more prepared then they were.

Environment plays a huge factor to. All these ULTIMATE FIGHTER guys fantasize at night about tiny little cages with rounded off fences that give and floors that won't take the skin off your back for rolling around on them for 20 minutes.

Might I add that in Ultimate fighter you are not allowed to eye gouge, stomp, hit the opponent in the throat or groin, fish hook the mouth......the list goes on and on. It's about as much like a street fight as my job at the pizza shack is like being CEO of microsoft.
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#144027 - 08/01/05 04:18 AM Re: TKD vs. Ju_jitsu [Re: Spin_Hook]
Ubermint Offline
Member

Registered: 06/23/05
Posts: 154
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Grappler or not you are a terrible martial artist IMO.-sanchin31, friend to all children

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#144028 - 08/02/05 06:31 PM Re: TKD vs. Ju_jitsu [Re: Ubermint]
Spin_Hook Offline
Member

Registered: 07/07/05
Posts: 45
I don't believe I ever proposed that Ultimate fighting is "just a sport". I've followed it for quite some time and I have many of the fights on tape/DVD/what have you. Those are trained fighters swinging, tackling, and kicking each other. For many of them it's their full-time job.

However, like all SPORTS, the rules in ultimate fighting (in addition to the "ring" in which they perform) are biased towards fighting a certain way. No one is saying that ultimate fighting isn't real...but it's not a real all out fight by any means because so many potential techniques and possibilities are excluded by rules.

A "real fight" would never last for 15 minutes, plain and simple.

I wrestled for about a decade total...and I'm completely aware of how devastating proper ground fighting techniques can be. I've also seen plenty of experienced wrestlers get owned by people with no idea what they were doing because they thought that getting close enough to throw someone would be easy.


Edited by Spin_Hook (08/02/05 06:32 PM)
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#144029 - 08/02/05 06:55 PM Re: TKD vs. Ju_jitsu [Re: Spin_Hook]
Ubermint Offline
Member

Registered: 06/23/05
Posts: 154
You didn't read a damn thing, did you?
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Grappler or not you are a terrible martial artist IMO.-sanchin31, friend to all children

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