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#143539 - 05/15/05 06:47 AM Re: Tone and Terms used in the dojo... [Re: still wadowoman]
shoshinkan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
I think it depends on our motivations within training.

for me my interest is in learning classical okinawan karate, therefore a classical gi suits the job just fine. the only change I would make is for seniors to perhaps wear a black top or bottoms for identification purposes etc etc.

if however my main motivation was for self defense then perhaps normal street clothing, particularry shoes would be best? at least sometimes in training to ensur erealism within reason.

#143540 - 05/15/05 07:48 AM Re: Tone and Terms used in the dojo... [Re: Kintama]
Midnightcrawler Offline

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 184
Loc: England

Quote:- If a sensei corrects, it seems odd to hear someone scream "OSSSSSS, SENSEI!" kinda like "YES DRILL SARGENT".

During basic training in the military, they want you to scream everything and mindlessly do as you are told. This is for effect. they are shaping a civilian into a killer...there is a process for doing this. Quote:

This sounds remarkably like the Bushido Academy of Martial Arts (UK) (B.A.M.A.) to me. Membership comprising a load of thugs, bullies, malcontents, semi-literates and other assorted tossers, who want to be turned into killers. That is the purpose of the Bushido school. No if's, no but's, no maybe's, pure evil and they teach it to kids as well. No insurance, no police checks.

So it still goes on; and evidence would suggest that they are on both sides of the pond, so look out for them, and shut them down if at all possible.


Edited by Midnightcrawler (05/15/05 08:16 AM)
God only knows; Really.

#143541 - 05/15/05 08:32 AM Re: Tone and Terms used in the dojo... [Re: Kintama]
AgenT Offline

Registered: 10/11/04
Posts: 314
Where I train it the instructors are pretty strict, but not abusive. We dont do japanese, but I learned some basic words anyway. When it comes to clothes, we wear normal everyday clothes, theres no sense in fighting in clothes you dont normally wear. Gi's do allow alot of freedom, but thats the problem most clothes are way more restrictive. If you can move in them your screwed.

#143542 - 05/16/05 10:17 PM Re: Tone and Terms used in the dojo... [Re: Kintama]
Dan_66 Offline

Registered: 03/22/05
Posts: 127
Loc: Canada
I am surprised to see the informality or Americanizing is so common here . I strongly disagree with it. If you take out the formality of bowing, recogniging the past presant, and future of martial arts. If you take out the titles (Sensei/Sempai/Kohai and Japanees/Chinese instruction and the gi you have a mcdojo I am afraid to say.

As for training in street cloths so you get used to the restrictive movements well thats what you have restricted movements. When you trian right in proper cloths gi you go beyond those restrictions, and when/if you have to fight in street cloths you will rip out your crotch with a kick, you eill tear the seams on your shirt. But if you only train to those restrictions you wont tear the seams or rip the crotch will you, you will most likely be not as effective and maybe hurt.

My view
Misfortune comes from Laziness

#143543 - 05/16/05 11:35 PM Re: Tone and Terms used in the dojo... [Re: Dan_66]
Kintama Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Massachusetts
Thank-You for your points of view. Reading your replies on this topic have allowed me to solidify and express my thoughts into words....

Formalities and ceremony with the notion of respect and acknowledging the past are a good thing. The uniform gives a subconscience transitional mood of "ok, now I'm training in MA and I'm not just playing hoop with friends at the YMCA". The uniform is also for social psychology reasons... 1)so training doesn't become distracted with an unspoken fashon show or a contest of who can get the latest workout gear. 2)it's easier for the instructor to pick out someone who has incorrect technique instead of the eyes trying to filter thru a collage of colors. of course with private instruction of only a few people, the uniform is a non-issue.

Terms used are part of ceremony, concise communication and clear transmission of ideas...the language that is used to do this is not important. although the use of the 'traditional' language gives an additional link to the past, but that is secondary to communication.

Discipline is needed, but not militaristic. in other words, it shouldn't be "Do what I say, or else..." it's more "Do it this way because it makes sense."

The Japanese adding Budo to Karate was a good thing and I think the Okinawans displayed genuine support of it...the Japanese invention of watering down, synthesizing and militarizing were bad choices; it was a reflection of what was going on there at the time- it was like military training for young ages as a small step towards their inevitable service to the Emperor ...they filled a perceived need. dominace. it grew into Japan's answer to hitlers youth. (although genetics weren't an issue for Japan, look at the other similarities to see what I'm talking about...think in a larger picture than Karate, think like war)

Japanese and American Senseis that later changed technique for sport or show. why? business(marketability). making money. fame. ego. And all the other human traits that bring the "best" out in people. You might have an honest heart and clear conscience, but if you are in a dojo that focuses on the next dojo trophy, you are indirectly supporting the greed or ego of someone higher up in the chain.

If you subtract the showmanship(ego), subtract the money-making gimics and scams, subtract the sport modification(water-down for appearence), subtract the militaristic teaching(using fear as a modivator)...take out all of those elements, and I think you'll have the framework of a healthy Karate dojo reguardless of style.

I learn when people disagree.

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