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#143429 - 05/12/05 11:23 PM Constructive criticism for senior Karateka.
Kintama Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Massachusetts
At the risk of breaching rank...I only mention this because I truely care.

I'm wondering with each of the senior members that have 20+ years of experience in Karate contributing in the forum, why there is only one Sensei that publishes articles either on this site, another site or printed media?

Forum enties in postings are as volitile as scratch paper; as evidenced by the recent software upgrade..poof...gone. all of your informative and insightful posts that would have kept enthusiasts busy for years to come. (I was still working on material you guys posted in 2001! gone. alot of posts that remain are unintelligibly fragmented.) online articles are better protected from this kind of the are more easily searched.

Doctors, professionals and even Grad students are required to publish in periodicals every so often is for good reason. I can't tell you how many times I referred to some obscure reference in a periodical when trying to find info on something else when I was in College. Published articles add to the chain of research and knowledge bridging. Articles don't need to be all technical with references and footnotes...they can be experience knowledge, well founded gut feelings, educated judgement calls, training stories/lessons, you name it. And before someone else uses the term 'mental-mast...' well you've heard that 'tossed' around. lol It's macho bull-crap. and whatever they have learned runs the risk of either dying with them or getting watered down.

The likes of McCarthy,Bishop, and others (Chris Caile) publishing great and valuable research in our field, we owe them much thanks. But what about the bits and pieces that fill between the masters they are writing about? Those missing pieces are you...unknown and not heard.

Promotion of the Art = sharing knowledge.

Thanks for reading.
-Student member #40733

#143430 - 05/13/05 02:08 AM Re: Constructive criticism for senior Karateka. [Re: Kintama]
hedkikr Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 2827
Loc: Southern California, USA
Butt moast of them cant reeley spel to good & the grammor mite bee a problemmatical cuz it's that way to?

#143431 - 05/13/05 07:47 AM Re: Constructive criticism for senior Karateka. [Re: hedkikr]
Kintama Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Massachusetts
spelchkr, hedkikr - I'm pretty sure you'd be able to write a book, Ed. Hey, you could do a whole set and call it the "Infinity and beyond" series. $59.99 per volume!

I think I'm assuming too much. publishing is not the end-all way of communicating knowledge. This topic was born out of the frustration of not being able to read posts that may have been interesting.

separate from that, I would be interested in seeing one of the senior Seito Matsumura guys write something...but thats just me, maybe they don't do requests.

#143432 - 05/13/05 10:12 AM Re: Constructive criticism for senior Karateka. [Re: Kintama]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6665
Loc: Amherst, MA
I brought this up at e-budo. It is incredible, some of the collective insights and threads...that can all be lost in a server crash.

Even archiving at the end of a year, and closing old threads, does not capture the dynamism. And then there is the much? I think that a really good writer could do it though...and I volunteer to pay for the first hard copy.

#143433 - 05/13/05 03:04 PM Re: Constructive criticism for senior Karateka. [Re: Kintama]
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3220
Loc: Derry, NH

There are numerous reasons seniors don't publish much.

Foremost being their art is not of a literary nature, it takes place on the training floor.

Second many have absolutely no interest in sharing their insight with anyone except their students. A large part of this goes back to the 'secrecy' traditions the arts sprang from and have not been set aside.

Third, There is absolutely no money to be made in pubishing. Perhaps some fame, or its attendant derision but few are really driven by that, and the ones that are write enough anyway.

Fourth, to do a reasonably accurate job takes a lot of resources, both in crafting the story, creating clear enough picutres/movies, etc. and then the people you're giving it to aren't your students. Why do you want so give it away, when they didn't sweat blood for it?

While I haven't begun to exhaust the reasons, this gives a flavor to reasons.

Look anyone who tries to share, is likely to end up being dumped on. Some people weigh that against any advantage for giving their insight to you, as they can't control what you do with it.

Those who do share likely are doing so for reasons that have nothing to do with meeting your desires. Perhaps money or fame, perhaps looking for others with enough experience to communicate with.

Personally I've translated books, written some articles, and tried to discuss much just to look for intelligent conversation, which almost never happens.

The more one tries to discuss things of a technical nature, to draw out others to share, the more silence that ensues, and that discounts the static that exists (you have no right to discuss that, or you don't know what you're talking about, etc.)

Couple that with the fact, it's difficult to put much of so physical art into words, most just give up. A truly adequate tecnical vocabulary really doesn't exist, one that really conveys the original intent.

There are lots of reasons.

But why wait.
1. you can always save internet material of interest. I have about 20' of binders with posts of interest.
2. there are a lot of books already written. Among the most interesting those publisehd in the 1930's. Some people like Patrick McCarthy and Mario McKenna have already published a bit of it. There are those also working on the more technically demanding ones, that will be very valuable when they're complete.

A few thoughts,
victor smith bushi no te isshinryu offering free instruction for 30 years

#143434 - 05/13/05 03:41 PM Re: Constructive criticism for senior Karateka. [Re: Kintama]
Stampede Offline
Lord of the Kazoo

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 967
Loc: El Dorado, AR
I'm still working on Sensei Victor's applications for Sanchin he posted oh so long ago.

Excellent stuff.
Formerly Vash

#143435 - 05/13/05 03:49 PM Re: Constructive criticism for senior Karateka. [Re: Victor Smith]
Kintama Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Massachusetts
Victor, What you are saying does make sense. I'm at work during the day. I write software, and my job is to basically figure out ways to solve problems with it. In this midset, I have the forum up in the background, so you can understand the 'mode' that I am in sometimes. After reading your reply and re-reading what I now seems my critique is a bit rediculous.
Opposite yet similar of the way I think of fighting; ideas are cheap and I just throw them out there in the hopes of landing a good one every now and then...and while I'm at work, ideas are kinetic similar to 'nagare'.

It's a thankless job, but I have enough karma to burn it off.

Thanks for taking the trouble to reply, and thank-you for contributing articles to the site!

#143436 - 05/13/05 05:42 PM Re: Constructive criticism for senior Karateka. [Re: Kintama]
Alejandro Offline

Registered: 05/02/02
Posts: 940
Loc: Las Cruces, NM USA
I have seen forums that have an article feature; where members can post their own articles. I wonder if that would be a possibility on this forum...? One would hope that it would only attract the most scholarly submissions, not just trolls. Anyway, I do understand that why many experienced practitioners don't published; reasons already stated by Victor. Many truly do treasure their knowledge so much that they don't want to write anything down, others have the outlook that they are passing on their knowledge through the direct instruction of their deshi, and don't have a desire to write. Even keeping a journal of one's ideas and thoughts, and perhaps allowing students to have copies, would be a significant thing. To each his or her own. We are certainly blessed, though, to have such great writers all around the world who do take the time to share their knowledge through publication.
In Budo, -Al

#143437 - 05/17/05 02:34 AM Re: Constructive criticism for senior Karateka. [Re: Kintama]
ken harding Offline

Registered: 04/21/04
Posts: 721
Loc: UK
Writing anything is very hard work, even a well thought out post on a forum such as this takes a little effort.
Nothing should get lost though if the servers are backed up ??? A bit of normal housekeeping and that issue is easily solved or should be.
I too have copies of some a load of interesting old posts which are a useful resource at times.
Heijo Shin

#143438 - 05/17/05 07:19 AM Re: Constructive criticism for senior Karateka. [Re: ken harding]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6665
Loc: Amherst, MA
Under my desk at home I literally have accumulated in the past year 4 boxes of printouts from forums and internet sites. Sorted by art, technique or culture/history and any aspects of spirituality. Just going through it gives me ideas of how it could be edited and turned into a really nice book, similar to an anthology. If I wasn't a newbie, I would volunteer to take on a batch of related threads to edit.

I don't buy forum t-shirts/caps, but a collective effort to bring fightingarts to print...that would be worth it. (Then I could toss 4 boxes of printouts.)

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