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#143085 - 11/02/05 10:24 PM Re: Boxing techniques [Re: MattJ]
Subedei Offline
Member

Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 479
You know what I'd love to see? Moral and legal problems aside, of course:

A match between someone trained in BJJ, MT and western boxing against an opponent trained in Hapkido or Kyokushin only (And I mean the traditional arts, not the sporty variety). Both cream of the crop in their respective fields.

This would take place in a 100'x100' concrete floored arena, designed to resemble a parking lot, complete with cars.

Opponents would start 30' away from each other and would wear street clothes. No gloves.

Absolutely no rules, the objective being to incapacitate or kill your opponent by any means. That means eye gouges are allowed, groin kicks are allowed, joint breaks are allowed, kneck snaps are, strikes to the spine, strikes to the throat, spear hands under the ribs, tiger claw rips to the face, hand strikes to both temples, etc, all allowed.

Yes, that would be a very interesting match...


Edited by Subedei (11/02/05 11:53 PM)

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#143086 - 11/16/05 01:42 PM Re: Boxing techniques [Re: Subedei]
alexw Offline
Stranger

Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 2
whats up guys?
this is going to be slightly biast, seeing as i am an active boxer, iv been going for years, and will be turning pro next year. id like to adress a couple of points.... but first ill do some background

iv done alot of martial arts in my lifetime. iv got black in karate (yes i know nearly everyone does) and in tag sou dao (something not so common) aswell as experience in ju-jitsu and judo. iv competed over 15 times in muay thai and had 2 vale tudo fights. so i do know what im talking about!

after obtaining a black in karate and tang sou dao, aswell as doing judo for a year i thought i was nearly indestructable. i had done alot of sparring and fighting in my lifestyle, and i wont be modest... i had really beat some guys down. i got in a fight outside my sports center with a guy who called me a "karate pussy"

the kid looked younger than me, certianly not as big and was wearing shorts and a hoody... nothing special. i immediately squared up (like a fool) to which he had no problem doing.

id like to point out this kid called me a karate pussy infront of me and about 3 other guys in gi's, all of his own accord, he had nobody with him...
i took a step back and threw a front foot roundhouse, but there was no point.. he rolled udner it and was on the outside. even though we were in a corridoor i couldnt hit this guy, he moved way too quickly, and he wasnt even throwing any punches. he flicked out a jab that was quicker than anything i had ever seen which cut me eye. this scared me a little, and there was no way i was gettig hit with another one of them. he went to throw another, so i went for a front arm inside to outside block, which was too slow... he just hit me again, then walked inside. immediately my long range kicks were nullified and he was just letting rip. he broke one of my ribs withb a right hook to my body, oushed me into the wall so i couldnt get away and punded me repeatedly untill i went down.

i got my ass kicked by a 14 year old kid, smaller and less experienced than me even though i was kicking him, and my kicks arent slow.
i couldnt take it, so i started muay thai and vale tudo, something where you learned to punch properly, but kick aswell, which went well for me. i won 18 MMA tournaments till i came up against a boxer who had done ju-jitsu.i threw a low kick, but he was way too fast, and no matter how much you practice your a bit off balance. he walked over my turned foot and landed a left hook to the point of my chin, i was out in an instant, and had to be taken away on a stretcher with the oxygen.

[censored] it i thought, im going to have to learn this boxing [censored]. and iv never looked back. martial arts cant touch on the mental state, toughness and power that you learn to control when you bod. iv learned to put every gram of my bodyweight behind a punch, i can shatter bones, guards and compusures of anyone i hit, and i hit too fast for who do martial arts to block.

so anyways, to adress the points.
myths of boxing:

"they dont know how to fight dirty"
BULL-[censored]. meet a boxer. i kid you not theyl try anything when the ref isnt looking. most of them are the toughest [censored] youll ever meet. we dont have the respect and honour shite. we dont bow when he enter the gym, we spit.

"they dont kow what to do in close, when when grabbed"

what the hell do you think uppercuts are for? we use elbows and our head alot, just cause were trained to do something in the ring, doesnt mean well stick to it on the street... iv personally given somone a straight right to the groin... out liek a light, and how do you get close to something you cant hit?

"they cant handle kicks, theyre too long"
we cant handle your kicks if you can kick for 10 mins straight without being off balance and leaving an openeing, or if you can kick faster than our jab. i have bad experiences with trying to kick a boxer, i dont advise it. alot of a boxers training will be getting in close to youur opponent by getting under a jab... a kick is far slower and longer... peice of [censored] to get under!

" a 2 year boxer wont be as good as a 2 year martial artist"
thats a stupid statement... if i took anything away from my experiences its dont underestimate. in my 2 years as a boxer i managed to rack up 12 fights and about 50+ hours of full contact sparring. difference between martial arts and boxing sparring is : in boxing, when you damage your opponent your doing well, in martial arts... you STOP!

dont get me wrong, im not slagging martial arts off, and im sure ill get millions of replies telling me that you all could kick my ass etc etc, but something i would like to put across is:

We have practical fight experience, we do it every day

we know what to do when we get hit and hard, most people go to peices

we dont telegraph our punches

our punches are probabely harder than most martial arts punches

our punches are probabely faster than most martial arts

we spend alot of time learning to adapt to different styles of fighting, and what to do with different things

our defense is incredible, either you cant hit us, or the hit is completely deflected...

FIGHT ON

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#143087 - 11/16/05 02:58 PM Re: Boxing techniques [Re: alexw]
funstick5000 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 759
Loc: West Yorkshire, England
we have a saying here that i'm going to introduce you to.

judge practicioners not the art.
_________________________
Go seek the advise of a qualified instructor.

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#143088 - 11/16/05 03:12 PM Re: Boxing techniques [Re: alexw]
funstick5000 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 759
Loc: West Yorkshire, England
re-reading your post there some stuff here thats going to give you problems with a lot experienced members and martial artists here. there are also some porblems i have too with what you say, especially about honour and discipline.

if the 14 year old had been trained with some disciple and honour he wouldn't have started on you and beaten the crap outta you. and you were stupid for rising to a petty insult.

evidently you were also trained pretty poorly in karate and sadly probably in a mcdojo, i'm sorry you had a bad experience with it. I'm glad you've found an art your comfortable in. (oh and its jutsu not j itsu)
_________________________
Go seek the advise of a qualified instructor.

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#143089 - 11/18/05 12:18 PM Re: Boxing techniques [Re: funstick5000]
alexw Offline
Stranger

Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 2
Quote:

re-reading your post there some stuff here thats going to give you problems with a lot experienced members and martial artists here. there are also some porblems i have too with what you say, especially about honour and discipline.

if the 14 year old had been trained with some disciple and honour he wouldn't have started on you and beaten the crap outta you. and you were stupid for rising to a petty insult.

evidently you were also trained pretty poorly in karate and sadly probably in a mcdojo, i'm sorry you had a bad experience with it. I'm glad you've found an art your comfortable in. (oh and its jutsu not j itsu)




id rather have fought, been beaten up and learned than not fought atall.
i am sure that i would have problems with alot of your experienced martial artists (if you meant in a fighting sense), i did not say i was the ultimate warrior, neither did i say that boxing was better than all the other martial arts. i did however say it was up with the best of them, and that you should not write it off as i felt some people on this forum were doing.

i dont know how my judo qualifications stand as compared to the rest of you, but i dont think its fair to tell me that i was poorly trained in karate. im competed many times in karate, on a national level and was only beaten twice.
i also dont appreciate being called stupid because of the way i act. perhaps it is not how you see fit, but it doesnt mean its wrong.

i am attempting not to insult anyone here, but im not doign a great job. try to read what i say as something different from a personal stab. remember i might have been practicing as long or longer than you, so dont call me uneducated. i still attend karate classes, i still practice muay thai.

i do however have real problems with the respect and honour concerned with martial arts. we are no longer in ancient japan. we no longer have fair fights, with both warriors made equal. we dont fight under rules in the street. the average thug who wants a scrap on a firday night will not bow to you before you fight him, and will show no mercy when your down on the floor. so why do you insist on practicing it?
i feel it is only for tradition, but that is what makes martial arts nowerdays so weak. they need to get with the world, take a step out of the past and come to the real world. alot of martial arts still teach strikes used to fight against swords, and many techniques were formed to deal with armoured opponents, something not common in the world today.
you are practicing your martial art in a sports center or a hut most probabely, not a "sacred" dojo, so why treat it like one?

just my thoughts

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#143090 - 11/18/05 02:47 PM Re: Boxing techniques [Re: alexw]
funstick5000 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 759
Loc: West Yorkshire, England
Quote:

Quote:

re-reading your post there some stuff here thats going to give you problems with a lot experienced members and martial artists here. there are also some porblems i have too with what you say, especially about honour and discipline.

if the 14 year old had been trained with some disciple and honour he wouldn't have started on you and beaten the crap outta you. and you were stupid for rising to a petty insult.

evidently you were also trained pretty poorly in karate and sadly probably in a mcdojo, i'm sorry you had a bad experience with it. I'm glad you've found an art your comfortable in. (oh and its jutsu not j itsu)




id rather have fought, been beaten up and learned than not fought atall.
i am sure that i would have problems with alot of your experienced martial artists (if you meant in a fighting sense), i did not say i was the ultimate warrior, neither did i say that boxing was better than all the other martial arts. i did however say it was up with the best of them, and that you should not write it off as i felt some people on this forum were doing.

i dont know how my judo qualifications stand as compared to the rest of you, but i dont think its fair to tell me that i was poorly trained in karate. im competed many times in karate, on a national level and was only beaten twice.
i also dont appreciate being called stupid because of the way i act. perhaps it is not how you see fit, but it doesnt mean its wrong.

i am attempting not to insult anyone here, but im not doign a great job. try to read what i say as something different from a personal stab. remember i might have been practicing as long or longer than you, so dont call me uneducated. i still attend karate classes, i still practice muay thai.

i do however have real problems with the respect and honour concerned with martial arts. we are no longer in ancient japan. we no longer have fair fights, with both warriors made equal. we dont fight under rules in the street. the average thug who wants a scrap on a firday night will not bow to you before you fight him, and will show no mercy when your down on the floor. so why do you insist on practicing it?
i feel it is only for tradition, but that is what makes martial arts nowerdays so weak. they need to get with the world, take a step out of the past and come to the real world. alot of martial arts still teach strikes used to fight against swords, and many techniques were formed to deal with armoured opponents, something not common in the world today.
you are practicing your martial art in a sports center or a hut most probabely, not a "sacred" dojo, so why treat it like one?

just my thoughts



i apologise for anything that may have offended you. i was out of order to call your training poor without proof. i don't see boxing as beneath other arts, just unbalanced.

but your veiw on the old japan way of fighting with respect and honour is warped. when you sparred (in a ring type thing) broken bones were common and they ended with knock outs pretty much every time, challege fights were even worse. and brawls in the street may have begun with a bow but you probabaly wouldn't walk or even hobble away from it.

arts like judo and akaido were invented in peace times, to reduce this. karate is a weakened art, before it was called tode and was changed in the 1800s into karate after it was introduced to okinawan schools as exercise, sport and discipline. its fatal attacks were removed and the others weakened to avoid serious injury, it also involved grappling and takedowns from jujutsu. reading your comments on boxing makes me want to learn it, to suppliment my karate and strengthen it back to the way it was when it was tode.

if you think people in old japan showed mercy then you are wrong. every samurai carried two swords, the longest sword would be drawn without question and i don't think mercy comes into play when one cuts the others arm off, then his leg, then beheads him. to show mercy and let the other man live in a fight meant dis-honour to his death and dishonour to yourself.

i think our veiws on respect and honour are something we are going to have to agree to disagree about. but i think the world as a whole would be a better place if everyone had respect and honour, thats never going to happen but i'm still going to practise it.
_________________________
Go seek the advise of a qualified instructor.

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#143091 - 11/30/05 08:41 PM Re: Boxing techniques [Re: funstick5000]
Subedei Offline
Member

Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 479
Looking back at my own post in this thread as well as several otheres I've been struck with amusement at how this discussion has progressed in a competition (sport!) forum!

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#143092 - 12/01/05 05:41 AM Re: Boxing techniques [Re: Neko456]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
I've not done boxing but I was once told (or read) that boxers train to hit wearing gloves and this slight difference can be problematic when they hit without wearing gloves, occassionally causing damage to hands. Is this true?
_________________________
See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

Supporting everyone saying "nuts to cancer"

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#143093 - 12/01/05 07:40 AM Re: Boxing techniques [Re: trevek]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Quote:

I've not done boxing but I was once told (or read) that boxers train to hit wearing gloves and this slight difference can be problematic when they hit without wearing gloves, occassionally causing damage to hands. Is this true?




The solution is to train boxing without the use of boxing gloves. Of course, your partners won't like that very much...

Boxing gloves allow us to isolate the boxing range more effectively and realistically.

You see, there is a reason for the gloves; they protect your partners and your hands during "training". Training realistically (actually punching) is kind of important.

What you have to do is supplement your training using the smaller MMA gloves (which really don't protect the hand all that much). MMA gloves came into existence NOT to protect the fighters hands during his fights, but to prevent CUTTING of his opponent which happened quite frequently in the early MMA events.

-John

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#143094 - 12/01/05 01:40 PM Re: Boxing techniques [Re: JKogas]
funstick5000 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 759
Loc: West Yorkshire, England
yeah i'd heard that about gloves, esp the full weight ones which are really heavy from what i gather.
_________________________
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