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#143075 - 07/09/05 01:18 PM Re: Boxing techniques [Re: nlcounty89]
MattJ Offline
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Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote by nlcounty89 -

Quote:

Also, I've seen plenty of UFC fighters gasping after a few minutes of fighting. Roy Jones never did that, even after 10 rounds.




I'm guessing that you have never done any grappling. Stand up boxing is a walk in the park compared to having someone attempt to put you in a submission on the ground.

Try it yourself.

And let's not compare Roy Jones to the average UFC fighter. He is an exceptional athlete. A comparison to Ken Shamrock would be somewhat more appropriate, and Ken has demonstrated very good conditioning (check his 30 minute bout with Royce Gracie - no breaks, unlike boxing).
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#143076 - 07/10/05 12:33 AM Re: Boxing techniques [Re: MattJ]
nlcounty89 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 5
Ken Shamrock is an exceptional athlete - however you don't see the same sort of anaerobic intensity in a UFC match, as you do in a boxing match. That's why you see huge guys with a pretty high body-fat percentage competing in UFC. Anyway, back to my original point, why is it that conditioning lags so far behind in martial arts? I've trained at many dojos and the suggested conditioning regiment has always been "jogging." I am still very active and supportive of the the martial arts (this is constructive crtiscism), but have recently started augmenting my routine by training in a boxing gym 2X a week in the city. These guys do an intense amount of aerobic and anaerobic conditioning which they push to the absolute extreme - 100 yard sprints, 5 mile runs, hill sprints ("gassers"), then weight training in the morning, and then during the gym sessions, squat-thrusts (burpees), ring footwork, hundreds of crunches, medicine ball work, and dozens upon dozens of rapid fire mitt and bag drills - and these guys are just amateur boxers - but they train like machines .
My question: why are the martial ars so far behind?

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#143077 - 07/10/05 01:30 AM Re: Boxing techniques [Re: nlcounty89]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
nlcountry,

The real truth is that most martial artists are hobbyists by definition. Amateur boxers...amateur sports folk in any catagory you would like to name hope to get into the professional ranks and thus either have sponsorships or have jobs that pay for their training...in time. Meaning the amateur level athelete has time to train, doesn't have to to worry about going on a cross counry overnighter for a sales meeting and has access to regular training routines. All in the hopes to be in the best shape for his bouts.

Most who train in martial arts, outside of instructors are not professional. They pay for their classes and are not paid to go to them. Thus...not a professional. This means you can only train as well as you can. A martial artist might be 50 years old and have to work 10 hours a day before training. A little less conducive to being in the gym for six hours.

-B (Just doing the best I can with what I have.)

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#143078 - 07/10/05 02:44 AM Re: Boxing techniques [Re: butterfly]
Chen Zen Offline
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Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
Oxing is definately an effective delivery system. It has decent footwork, teaches covering, bobbing and weaving. The simplicity of only having five techniques makes the practice highly effective and low maintinance. But its a delivery system it isnt a whole fighting structure. When western Boxing covers all ranges then it will be a system. Until then its a supplement to the system.
_________________________
"When I let Go of who I am, I become who I might be."
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#143079 - 07/10/05 06:59 PM Re: Boxing techniques [Re: butterfly]
MAGr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 1147
Loc: London, home: Athens
If you are trying to learn martial arts however and you want to be a martial artist you have to at least keep your tools sharp. If you have painting as a hobby, and not a profession, you still dont use frayed brushes.
There is no point in learning a fighting system if you are not trying to get fit. Otherwise you will never feel what it means to be light on your feet, to be able to last a couple of minutes of intense fighting, or have the physical strenght (which oh my god! yes, we need sometimes) to ward off a big one!

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#143080 - 07/11/05 12:40 PM Re: Boxing techniques [Re: nlcounty89]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
I agree that there is a level of fitness that Boxers or amutuer sports acheive that average MA does not, but they were not intend on competing in the same arena. When they do rules support the fighters that trains under those rules.

Comparing someone like Roy Jones who was once in or the lb for lbs best boxer of his area vs. UFC players stamina is unfair. But still under UFC rules fight I'd go with the UFC fighter and the coulpe clinches if it goes rounds I'd might go with RJ. But really I think he would quit once his legs got kicked, thats were they make their living (foot work).

My point is that boxing is limited you can be in best shape in the world and still get pounded out or choked out, if you don't know how defend agaisnt it. Granted give RJ or any boxer at that level time to learn UFC defense and attacks he'd be awesome.

Improbable yeah, who would risk a UFC $50k-100K check, vs his usual $4.5 million purse in boxing. Boxers are superior athletes but they have limted range like a 38 spl.
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#143081 - 08/30/05 11:31 AM Re: Boxing techniques [Re: Gula]
BigRod Offline
Does it all

Registered: 02/10/05
Posts: 736
Loc: Atlanta, GA
OMG!

I cannot believe some of the stuff I'm reading on this thread.

I'm almost at a loss for words. My guess is the majority of you making those comments have never boxed or even attended a seminar on boxing. And I'm positive you never stepped in the ring with a boxer.

Where do you guys get this stuff from?

Quote:

many boxers (as well as MAs!!!) don't know how to align their wrists and hold their fists properly.




Are you serious? Exactly how did you come to this conclusion? How many boxers do you know? How many boxing gyms have you trained at?

Quote:


I totally agree, boxing weakness is fist formation and delievery points of strike out of gloves.

I disagree a boxer in a boxing ring maybe, but a boxer in a street fight or in free range fight. I think not.

Amature boxers at their range can be awesome, but in a dirty street fight they fight too clean.






Sometimes the stuff said around here is unreal.

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#143082 - 09/01/05 11:00 AM Re: Boxing techniques [Re: BigRod]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Get out of the gym and go out into the street walk with the boxers and watch them in action. Some do injury themself using their fist (in gloves they are protected), though they may KO their opponent they break a knuckle (usually the little finger).

Boxers are powerful punchers sometimes that enough, other times its not, I find that the amatures (some journeman Pros) in a clinch seem to freeze for a moment opening themself up to throws, takedowns and sweeps (dryland for a boxer).

Just because a guys a bad man in the ring don't aways mean he can fight in the street. Just like the Shark in the water its one of the tough ultimate predator, on dry land its just a coughing dieing fish, now you can't f$%k around with it you gotta go ahead a kill it.

You obviosouly have your oppinons based on your time in the ring with these boxers, they are very tough and skilled espeically if you are learning but if you can box, they are just boxers. With strengths and weakness.

Not trying to slight just calling it from where I see it boxers are good in their element. On the ground BigRod, grappling you'd be the Shark and they'd be the prey, wouldn't you say. S&W again, right?


Edited by Neko456 (09/01/05 11:05 AM)
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#143083 - 09/06/05 10:14 PM Re: Boxing techniques [Re: nlcounty89]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Quote:

Ken Shamrock is an exceptional athlete - however you don't see the same sort of anaerobic intensity in a UFC match, as you do in a boxing match.




To be fair to the UFC guys -- I think you see MORE anaerobic intensity in those matches (than in boxing). This is because you're doing MORE than simply boxing. You're having to also wrestle in the clinch and on the ground. This takes a HUGE amount of anaerobic conditioning. Much more so than when you're "just boxing".

Quote:


That's why you see huge guys with a pretty high body-fat percentage competing in UFC.




Not really. There are PLENTY of ripped guys in there as well. I don't know who you've been seeing....

Sometimes it's also a matter of genetics. Carrying a little more bodyfat doesn't always mean that a person is out of shape.

Quote:


Anyway, back to my original point, why is it that conditioning lags so far behind in martial arts?

...why are the martial ars so far behind?




That completely depends on where you train and what their particular philosophy is. It also depends on the goals of the individual martial artists.


-John

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#143084 - 09/07/05 06:51 AM Re: Boxing techniques [Re: JKogas]
MAGr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 1147
Loc: London, home: Athens
Quote:

Anyway, back to my original point, why is it that conditioning lags so far behind in martial arts?

...why are the martial ars so far behind?




I think wanting your cake and eating it is a world wide phenomenon not just in MAs. In all types of activity, art, sport, hobbys etc people want shortcuts and they want to expunge the unpleasant side of it or what each peron finds unpleasant. I agree with John completely, it depends on the individual

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