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#143045 - 05/12/05 07:16 AM Boxing techniques
Gula Offline
Member

Registered: 10/18/04
Posts: 78
I was just wondering today what really makes (or doesnt make) boxing's hand techniques so successfull and effective?

I came to the conclusion that it must be because the techniques are constantly under pressure and tested in bouts and the unusefull techniques are quickly casted aside

Any opinions about what does or doesnt boxing's hand techniques one of the best in the world?
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#143046 - 05/14/05 08:25 AM Re: Boxing techniques [Re: Gula]
Ace Offline
Member

Registered: 05/04/05
Posts: 101
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
People in boxing are relaxed about what they are doing, drill all the time against hard targets, do full contact sparring and use speedballs, floor to ceiling balls and focus mits. i ko=now other styles may also use this, but probably not as much. Also, there are pretty much only 5 punches: jab, Cross, Hook, Body rip, and Uppercut, alowing boxers to dedicate more time to erfecting these, which can be utilised to hit pretty much any target on the top half of the body. they also do lots os combo work and have fast and effective footwork that works anywhere and doesnt require a pausing gap to move, such as low horse stances ect.

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#143047 - 05/14/05 09:32 PM Re: Boxing techniques [Re: Ace]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
Ace,
You are absolutely right! And, by the way, some of the best Karateka that I personally know had been amateur boxers. They knew how to hit and get hit, and seemed to be able to modify more easily some of the empty hand strikes in other more traditional MAs to their take on striking.

I consider boxing a MA and an exemplary fighting style.

-B

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#143048 - 05/15/05 02:35 PM Re: Boxing techniques [Re: butterfly]
Chen Zen Offline
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Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
Personally I consider boxing a supplement to a Martial art. Ace had a good answer as to the training they go through. It will vastly improve any art. I dont think of it as a stand alone art because it leaves alot out such as graplling outside of the clinch and use of the feet in combat. An excellent sport though
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#143049 - 06/22/05 05:07 AM Re: Boxing techniques [Re: Chen Zen]
Outshined Offline
Member

Registered: 06/09/05
Posts: 48
Loc: Argentina
Mmmm.... and does KickBoxing deserve another opinion, then??

And....by the use of feet in combat.....do you mean....basically.....kicking....because one of Boxing most important (and underrated) patrons is the constant evasive footwork...
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#143050 - 06/22/05 06:43 AM Re: Boxing techniques [Re: Chen Zen]
MAGr Offline
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Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 1147
Loc: London, home: Athens
Also, they wear gloves. A lot of martial arts techniques, especially blocks, require the use of your hands and wrists, also they require the ability to slap hands and grab, all of which you cant do with those gloves on, as well as palm strikes.
Dont start flaming me, I am just stating th eobvious not saying that boxers are not good fighters or that their hand techniques are bad.

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#143051 - 06/22/05 07:16 AM Re: Boxing techniques [Re: MAGr]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
This post isn't "aimed" at anyone...

I think we all realize that boxing is considered "incomplete".

However, boxing "works". Boxers DO train and fight with gloves on, but they take them off when they leave the gym. Those same punches and defensive tactics are still going to be there. It's the underlying delivery system that makes boxing so formidable.

Now you have to take that structure and add a few things obviously to make boxing more complete, most notably within the clinch and the ground. Otherwise, boxing is great by and large. That's going to depend on the type of gym one is training at as well. A whole lot of variables have to be considered and my opinion here is about the delivery system itself.

-John

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#143052 - 06/22/05 08:00 AM Re: Boxing techniques [Re: JKogas]
CVV Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/06/04
Posts: 605
Loc: Belgium
Question about fighting guard in boxing and other gloves (boxing kind) related MA.
I have practised a bit of Muy Thai in the past and had to fight with these gloves. When fighting, my guard was up high, elbow's in hands/fist a bit away from my chin (few centimeters/inch).
In karate (my 'root' MA) I always train without gloves (sometimes use mits but seldom) my guard is even further away from my chin but still up high and elbows in.
Now sometimes I see SD training where they would hold their guard high, hands against the cheeck (open or fist) and I start to wonder what happens if I hit on the hands (not wearing gloves or mits). I have tried it with some friends and come to the conclusion that it hurts the hand and the head when hitting the hands of the opponent holding his guard like that.
Is it a mistake to put the hands against the head as guard when not whearing gloves ?

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#143053 - 06/22/05 08:19 AM Re: Boxing techniques [Re: JKogas]
MAGr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 1147
Loc: London, home: Athens
Quote:

It's the underlying delivery system that makes boxing so formidable




Yes I agree with you there.

Quote:

Now you have to take that structure and add a few things obviously to make boxing more complete, most notably within the clinch and the ground




And I agree that it has missing things in the clinch and on the ground.
You are missing the point I was trying to make though, I am not saying that boxers cant use their techniques with no gloves, Ia m saying that I cant use my techniques with gloves, especially boxing gloves.
Now you think that one of the most important thing missing is the abillity on the clinch and the ground, and I think that the biggest thing that is missing are the kicks and the defence, that is because of our respective field of expertise. But it seems to me that you think that there is not much to add in terms of hand techniques, well let me tell you that if you take of the gloves I can introduce you to a whole new world of hand combat.

P.S. again I am not saying boxers arent good fighters, they are very quick and their punches and their combos can and are devastating.

edit: did the above sound a bit arrogant? rephrase: take off the gloves and there is a whole new set of techniques you can use.


Edited by MAGr (06/22/05 01:02 PM)

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#143054 - 06/22/05 12:46 PM Re: Boxing techniques [Re: CVV]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
CVV,

Yes, I think you are correct about the distance needed to keep your guard up when practicing open handed, translated strikes from boxing. The cushion of the gloves can protect a little when absorbing strikes, compared to how your hands cupped to your face will translate the inpact to your head. But it is no fun to take a good right cross to the head despite your gloved hand protecting you.

Let me preface with two things, I have practiced with boxers and consider JKogas' assement correct. However, everyone on this thread, including MAgr, have valid points.

But let me point out a couple of specifics from just a punching aspect coming from my experience, and please note, that these might not follow your personal experiences and should just be considered an example from my perspective.

The style of karate I study has been heavily influenced by boxing techniques, but you have to slightly modify some of them for utility in a barehanded scenario.

However, the traditional stuff of karate for increasing wrist strength and forming a tight fist is a must. This is becuase the wraps and the gloves of boxing are all there to support and protect the bones and structure of the hand when striking. And let me add, when you increase the mass of the hand by putting on gloves, this can add to the force of a boxer's strike when thrown correctly. This is not all protection for the recipient of the punch.

Now, If you examine just the jab/right cross and the hook for a moment, you get an idea from where I am coming from. Some boxing schools teach the flick jab which may or may not be something you want to really use in an altercation...I would be leary though. But I had a boxing instructor once teach the jab and right cross combo with a large twisting motion of the wrist (and please note, different boxers do some techniques differently) so that the fist is perpendicular to the plane of the floor, but the thumb is pointing down. This was so that you would automatically roll the shoulders up and protect against a hook to the head. While this is good reasoning if you have gloves, without gloves, you risk impacting with your pinky knuckle and its adjacent finger's knuckle first. These are generally weak, if not conditioned and may break if hitting your opponent's elbow, if he raises it to guard.

For the hook, similarly speaking, one can throw it palm facing floor as I have been instructed in karate with a slight snap of the wrist upon impact so that you are again impactcing with the first two knuckles of the hand. In some boxing styles this punch would be delivered with the fist perpendicular to the ground, thumb up, but with a possibility of the same problem when throwing without gloves...that is impacting with the two smallest knuckles of the hand, and possibly injuring these.

In general, when performing a hook opened handed compared to boxing, I find that I throw it in a tighter arc as well.

In any case, just my two cents.

-B

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