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#142636 - 05/16/05 10:48 PM Re: "Ninja" swords [Re: Wilf]
Gaara Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/04/05
Posts: 12
I learned it from my father and the rest of my family. We are Japanese and we are from a ninja clan and I have trained in Ninjutsu and am a 10th Dan of my clans style.

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#142637 - 05/16/05 11:24 PM Re: "Ninja" swords [Re: Gaara]
JoelM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 6355
Loc: Georgia, USA
I really hope that's a joke.
_________________________
We should all take ourselves seriously...and then crumple that image up and toss it out the window.

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#142638 - 05/17/05 12:38 AM Re: "Ninja" swords [Re: JoelM]
Reiki Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 3400
Loc: MiddleEarth
Play nicely children or else...
_________________________
Allow me to acquaint you with my friends Mr Jab and Mr Cross...

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#142639 - 05/17/05 12:56 AM Re: "Ninja" swords [Re: Reiki]
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
But he's making it too easy. Just this once, please?!
_________________________
Enjoy life while you can, you never know when things will change.

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#142640 - 05/22/05 09:36 PM Re: "Ninja" swords [Re: laf7773]
Nico Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/12/05
Posts: 8
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
"First off, ninja would expect to complete their mission without fighting samurai"

Do you really think so? Thats like saying a CIA assassin would expect to not fight a body guard on a mission to kill an embassador. Surely he would still bring a weapon.

"Second, ninja would not fight head-on."

Why not? So are you telling me that with your 10th dan black belt you would run and hide if I met you on the street? Is that not why a ninja was so feared in his time. Becuase they could pass through guards undetected then cut a way out with their strange list of weaponry.
Takematsu Sensei was said to be a deadly swordsman, and had even killed many in duels.

"Lastly, the ninja didn't see their sword as their soul as samurai did so they treated them as tools that could be made fast and easily in about a day instead of a few months. "

Yes, but you being Japanese would surely know that it was not just Samurai that carried swords. A sword at your west was a common thing in fuedal japan. From my knowledge, it was only Samurai that were permitted to carry two, thus indicating their status.
The concept that a Ninja treated his sword like dirt because he saw it just as a tool just didnt make sense. I mean, I own alot of tools in my shed, but I don't leave them outside on the lawn at night to rust just because they are not my soul...
My two scents.

Wow, man...so if what you say is true, are you a real Ninja? From what family do you come from?
What was your training like? How long does it take you to smash a lock with your sword? Or do you pick it with the tip?
_________________________
"Trust a friend with your life, lose both in the bargain." ~Assassin's Maxim.

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#142641 - 08/27/05 06:53 AM Re: "Ninja" swords [Re: Nico]
paradoxbox Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 590
I'm months late to this thread but the guy with all his information wrong basically typed out word for word the sword section contained in Stephen Hayes's "Ninja and their Secret Fighting Art", while it's not all 100% wrong it's not accurate either.

For what it's worth any 'ninja' may have used straight swords prior to the 800's as this was the popular style, and many swords were imported from China, thus the vast majority of them were straight. However after the Late 780's, normal curved swords became the norm.

I can't remember exactly, but the shinobigatana from the Togakure ryu is defined as having an 18.4inch blade with a 14 inch tsuka. Very long tsuka for such a short blade.

The sageo is also supposed to be longer than normal for the 7 ways of sageo usage of course. And there are many more kuden for that.

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#142642 - 10/09/05 10:29 AM Re: "Ninja" swords [Re: paradoxbox]
Dado Offline
Stranger

Registered: 10/09/05
Posts: 1
I also have to agree with Gaara on this matter.I am not a clan member but I`m a Bujinkan member.And the teachings in Bujinkan are quite clear...ANY weapon of any size is a weapon.Ninja-to by definition is a sword slightly shorter then katana, and sometimes he had a straight blade sometimes he didn`t.Only the imagination of an individual shinobi limited his arsenal,meaning everything he could put his hands on could become a weapon.First ninpo weapons vere derivates from farm tools, and the very first weapons were wooden(bo,hanbo,bokken,etc).At the beginning ninja`s were farm people who fled from daimyo`s in the hills.Later they were organized in ninja willages, later on in clans and famillies.Through this famillies we are able to learn ninpo. But the fact remains...for ninja a sword is only a weapon that he can use and be done with it.He doesen`t think of it as a carrier of his soul and honor(Like samurai does).IT IS ONLY A WEAPON like any other.And yes,nobody in bujinkan today denies the fact that ninja`s were shadow warriors.They didnt fight by the book,they didn`t go around villages dueling people like ronins did,they were send by their jonin to do a job,that they did at any cost.I am sorry that poeple have such distorted wiev of ninja`s(Or should I say Hollywood ninja`s),but that is the fact.They were not mindless assasins,or supernatural beeings,or good honorable people.They were warriors trained to do a job.They were trained from early ages of their life.But I am glad to see that ther are still active famillies who teach the true ninpo way. So, Gaara, NINPO IKKAN.

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#142643 - 10/09/05 04:29 PM Re: "Ninja" swords [Re: Dado]
UofM Shorin Ryu Offline
Resident Forum Breakdancer

Registered: 02/07/05
Posts: 981
What do ninjas, Roman Legionaries, gladiators, and hoplites all have in common?


They no longer exist
_________________________
Alea iacta est ~ Gauis Julius Caesar Ne quis nimis ~ Solon Nuts to cancer ~ Sanchin31

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#142644 - 10/10/05 04:46 PM Re: "Ninja" swords [Re: UofM Shorin Ryu]
paradoxbox Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 590
There are more than a few people who actually practice ninpo and ninjutsu that would disagree with your statement, someone who has no experience or knowledge of the art, nor ever researched ninja from a historical standpoint.

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#142645 - 10/10/05 10:30 PM Re: "Ninja" swords [Re: paradoxbox]
UofM Shorin Ryu Offline
Resident Forum Breakdancer

Registered: 02/07/05
Posts: 981
Quote:

There are more than a few people who actually practice ninpo and ninjutsu that would disagree with your statement, someone who has no experience or knowledge of the art, nor ever researched ninja from a historical standpoint.




Who's to say I haven't? I obviously hit a tender spot, or you woke up on the wrong side of the bed, cause that's a pretty arrogant assumption you just made...considering I'm a HISTORY MAJOR....

In a historical context, no, ninja do not exist. MODERN ninja exist, ie, the practicioners of ninpo/ninjtsu. But without the social context of their day, ie a militaristic rule vs democratic rule, social class differentiations, they're really not the same, are they?

I can go buy a scutum, a gladius, and a pilum and then train in the Roman army, but I'm not a Roman legionary. Similarly, soldiers in the modern Italian army wouldn't call themselves legionaries, they're not the same.

Would you call today's Japanese soldiers samurai then? No, because even though samurai were "government soldiers" to put it in the simplest terms, today's modern Japan army are very clearly NOT samurai, even if they share similarities.

Unfortunately I don't think any of the campus museums contain ninpo artifacts, nor is there any History 101: history of ninjutsu and the ninja class being taught that I know of.

But I'm sure with your Ph.D in the subject you can point me in the right direction for a "historical" study of the ninja.
_________________________
Alea iacta est ~ Gauis Julius Caesar Ne quis nimis ~ Solon Nuts to cancer ~ Sanchin31

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