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#141284 - 05/10/05 03:50 PM Re: KM faster to learn? [Re: jaret345]
globetrotter Offline
does unto others before they do unto him

Registered: 01/10/05
Posts: 637
Loc: ny usa
I didn't know it was being offered. what do I have to do?

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#141285 - 05/13/05 09:38 AM Re: KM faster to learn? [Re: globetrotter]
RangerG Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 04/18/05
Posts: 1026
Loc: Chester County, Pennsylvania
Quote:

I didn't know it was being offered. what do I have to do?




Contact the Admin.

I have moderated at other forums, but if you are interested, throw you hat into the ring!
_________________________
"If you're gonna be stupid, you better be tough."

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#141286 - 05/14/05 02:35 AM Re: KM faster to learn? [Re: Ace]
Fletch1 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/21/04
Posts: 2218
Loc: Florida
Several things to remember about the military in regards to H2H training:

1. H2H training is minimal in all military units as the emphasis is on individual and crew served weapons and tactics, communications equipment, battlefield maneuver and equipment maintenance.

2. The standard set by military units for H2H proficiency is relatively low. It is generally a "feel good" exercise meant to develop confidence.

3. Clearly it would not make good business sense to advertise that the military uses your stuff because they don't have any time to actually train and since they have relatively low performance standards for H2H, your program was selected because they don't expect it to accomplish much anyway.

This whole "official H2H system" of the "super secret XYZ Soviet/Israeli/SF" is pure marketing.

Try it. If you like it, stick with it, It might be great. Just do not fall for the hype.


Edited by Fletch1 (05/14/05 02:40 AM)

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#141287 - 05/14/05 07:43 AM Re: KM faster to learn? [Re: Fletch1]
Ace Offline
Member

Registered: 05/04/05
Posts: 101
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Fletch, i presume this message was to me, and i am very happy with my style, as it is not actually Krav Maga, it is Hock's CQC. I think this style is extemly useful and have not run into a situation where i have not been able to utilize it, unlike other styles i have studied. And when refering to the army using my style, it was MP's who Do need good H2H skills and SAS, who do special ops, which, believe it or not, do also use a higher form of H2H. But bed=sides that, we utilize many techniques useful for peolpe in the sucurity buisness who must learn restraint and removal techniques and tactics. Not that i would be biased, but i find this style works alot better for me than soley studying Boxing/Muay Thai/Phillipino/Wing Chun/Knife/Impact Weapon/ ect, as learning useful techniques from each of these are easier than learning the whole systems. What Styles do you train in, so i can point out the inadequeces of it as well?

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#141288 - 05/14/05 10:34 AM Re: KM faster to learn? [Re: globetrotter]
Sanchin Offline
Member

Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 174
Quote:

krav maga has a few advantages in terms of time it takes to learn

1. it is extremly no nonsense - there are thngs that you teach beginers in other martial arts that are not actually used, but give a base for things that you will learn later. there is very little like this in krav maga. the moves you learn are all basic, simple and practical

2. krav maga training is all as real as possible. you don't have black belts who have never realy sparred, because in your first few lessons you will get pysical, and you will keep it up.

3. there is nothing fancy - it is a few basic moves, a few basic targets, no high kicks, no fancy joint work, etc. the idea is to teach people to take down a threat fast and simple.

4. there is nothing spiritual or mystical about krav maga - it is engineering, not art. you are tought an attitude about how to bring force into play, in order to end threats. you won't see anybody learning how to to a sword kata, but you will see people learning how to hit with a fire extinguisher.


I studied krav maga for 2 course, almost 20 years ago. one course was 2 weeks long, and the other was 6 weeks long, but wasn't just focused on krav maga. I still remember a hell of a lot that was tought me there, and when I spar, I use that more than the style that I study now.




All you learned was "beginners KM" you say there are only basics, thats because thats all you learned and to state it as fact is a huge misconception. There is just as many impractical techniques in KM as there is in other martial art systems, but this is just opinion and I will leave it at that. Tons of clips on this site http://www.academykravmaga.com/clip.html

No spirituality ? Were talking about one of the most spiritual countries in the world, Israel, which is where KM was "developed".. the way KM is delivered in the US, is much different than in Israel, in much the same ways Japanese Karate Dojos is much different than American Karate Dojos.
_________________________
"Everything is already, and always will be given" - Our New Pope. B

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#141289 - 05/14/05 12:10 PM Re: KM faster to learn? [Re: Ace]
Fletch1 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/21/04
Posts: 2218
Loc: Florida

You point out how KM is trained by military. This is supposed to give it credibility. Well, the reality is that the military has limited time to spend on H2H training and the proficiency standards are relatively low. It is a strategic and administrative compromise. The marketing would have you believe otherwise.

What someone can do who is a well trained representative of a particular program can do vs an average person with the minimum training can do. That is the question. Clearly, there are tough guys who train regularly in KM. There are tough guys that don't. So what? When it is examined objectively, I don't think the KM training will make the difference over another given training program. KM has a commercial marketing appeal, that is the difference. Marketing gets more people to train, absolutely. Just don't confuse that with the KM training being on a higher level of performance.

My point is not to talk down about your "style". A style comparison is not what this is about although it seems that many KM people take this as an attack. Martial arts is funny like that and KM is clearly a martial art in that respect. Neither better nor worse than other programs currently available.

As far as my style? Fletch-Do, Fletch-Jitsu & Fletch-Fu. Suffice it to say that my training and what I teach includes standup, clinch and ground and is trained in an "alive" environment.

I kind of know a little about military and law enforcement training as well.


Edited by Fletch1 (05/14/05 12:16 PM)
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www.brazilianjiujitsunaples.com

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#141290 - 05/15/05 02:48 PM Re: KM faster to learn? [Re: Fletch1]
globetrotter Offline
does unto others before they do unto him

Registered: 01/10/05
Posts: 637
Loc: ny usa
you are right and wrong. in the israeli army, there are several units that would be considered light infantry in the US military, that are primarily focused on close combat and what is called anti-terror. a lot of things that in the US would be handled by a swat team in israel would be handled by one of these units.

the main people who are supposed to train in krav maga are these units. the vast majority of the military either has no krav maga training, or a few days at best. even regular line infantry has only a week or so of training in krav maga. the chance of a regular soldier ever having to hit somebody is very very slim.

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#141291 - 05/19/05 01:29 AM Re: KM faster to learn? [Re: globetrotter]
Ace Offline
Member

Registered: 05/04/05
Posts: 101
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
all stylesare marketed,after all, people who teach astyle for a living do need to have enough students to make an income... i have seen many styles market themselves as the be all end all of MA, not just KM, so to put this in the KM forum and not the general MA forum isnt really practical is it?

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#141292 - 05/19/05 03:22 AM Re: KM faster to learn? [Re: Ace]
Happy Birthday SANCHIN31 Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3783
Loc: Arkansas, U.S.
It's not practical to ask KM practitioners KM questions?
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Skinny,Bald,and Handsome! Fightingarts Warrior of the year

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#141293 - 05/19/05 07:45 AM Re: KM faster to learn? [Re: SANCHIN31]
retzef Offline
Member

Registered: 05/18/05
Posts: 43
As for Marketing you would have to ask the Los Angeles based association about that. I have been trained by Israelis and I do see a difference in training in American schools. It is a result of the licensing to McDojos that are Karate and Tae Kwon Doe Black Belt Superstores.

Alot of KM is based on instinct and not complex with a few basic moves that can be adapted to weapons defense as well. But for those who want to learn more KM has as much of a curriculum as any self defense system. the system has not gotten popular until recently and many Americans have just not seen past the beginning levels of the system.

The answer to original question: Yes KM is faster to learn for real life self defense in a short amount of time.

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