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#140192 - 05/08/05 02:47 PM Makiwara or no Makiwara
AgenT Offline
Member

Registered: 10/11/04
Posts: 314
Today when most train karate they now substitute makiwara training, with bagwork or the use of other equipment. I feel a valuable tool may be overlooked. I began makiwara training when I was a yonkyu, and after a while changed to other equipment. I just recently took up makiwara training again, and can see a considerable difference in my power, and accuracy. I'm curious to know peoples views, do you see this as a damaging uneeded tool, or a essential piece of equipment. It comes as no surprise to me that old time karate masters saw it as needed.

Teach what you know,regardless of when you learned it--teach what you learned yesterday sagely, as if you have kown it all your life, and teach what you have known for decades with enthusiasm, as if you learned it only yesterday

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#140193 - 05/08/05 06:31 PM Re: Makiwara or no Makiwara [Re: AgenT]
SANCHIN31 Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3783
Loc: Arkansas, U.S.
I found makiwara to be hard on my joints and just not worth it. I prefer to stick to bagwork.
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#140194 - 05/08/05 07:02 PM Re: Makiwara or no Makiwara [Re: AgenT]
BAMA REDNECK9000 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/10/04
Posts: 329
Loc: ALABAMA
I own a Mkiwara but dont train on it a whole lot any more becuz everyone at the forums suggested I start training on it later becuz I'm only 13, but when I was training on it a lot, it did supply me with acuracy and power and I still train on it about once a week but at my age too much could be bad for my joints.
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#140195 - 05/08/05 08:39 PM Re: Makiwara or no Makiwara [Re: AgenT]
GojuRyuboy13 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/29/04
Posts: 538
Loc: U.S. of A.
I have my own makiwara too, but I don't train on it that much. I think it is good for form and striking with the first two, and also strengthening the knuckles but after a while it would probably bring more negative effects then positive.
Oh well
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#140196 - 05/08/05 08:57 PM Re: Makiwara or no Makiwara [Re: GojuRyuboy13]
AgenT Offline
Member

Registered: 10/11/04
Posts: 314
I agree it can damage the hands, but only if done to much, and usually only if you arent used to it and try to start out at full power. I usually do 30-45 punches and kicks on the makiwara every 2-3 days. Thats a pretty good pace, the reason I prefer makiwara over bagwork is I have little space at my house for equipment so a outdoor makiwara gives me something to train on. I got a heavy bag but its rather worn, just cover the makiwara when done and it lasts much longer. It never bothered my joints and the only time I hurt my hands was in the beginning because they werent conditioned. Thats one thing bagwork dont do to well compared to a makiwara it dont condition the hands.

-----------
Teach what you know,regardless of when you learned it, teach what you learned yesterday sagely, as if you have kown it all your life, and teach what you have known for decades with enthusiam, as if you learned it only yesterday

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#140197 - 05/08/05 09:22 PM Re: Makiwara or no Makiwara [Re: AgenT]
SANCHIN31 Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3783
Loc: Arkansas, U.S.
I'm not a real big fan of breaking down the body for conditioning. In the long run it makes you weaker.
If your heavybag is worn just wrap it up with duct tape.
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#140198 - 05/08/05 11:05 PM Re: Makiwara or no Makiwara [Re: SANCHIN31]
AgenT Offline
Member

Registered: 10/11/04
Posts: 314
I see what your saying, of course it breaks down the body if done excessivly, but I'm talking about using it with commonsense. I already got the bag wrapped in tape, I do way more bag work then makiwara training anyway. Also since I made the striking surface on the makiwara from a cork like material, it has plenty of give and wont damage my hands, allowing me to go at full power.I still believe if done correctly it does condition the hands and is good for learning to generate force without making your body a huge shock absorber. It's just a preference of mine, I feel I get more feedback from it then a heavybag even though I practice on it less.

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#140199 - 05/09/05 12:24 PM Re: Makiwara or no Makiwara [Re: AgenT]
Alejandro Offline
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Registered: 05/02/02
Posts: 940
Loc: Las Cruces, NM USA
I use makiwara, and have for quite a few years with no problems. One key factor is the makiwara itself. Those who have joint problems as a result of makiwara training are likely striking a very stiff makiwara. The makiwara must be rather springy, so to absorb the force of the strike. Think about it: when you punch someone, do you want your force to be transmitted completely into your target, or do you want most of it to go right back into your own body? So a springy makiwara is necessary for your own safety, and for proper power development.

The makiwara and heavy bag are different, and teach different things. Too much of either will be detrimental. Bag work allows more leeway in technique, often resulting in unfocused technique. Makiwara punishes you if your alignment and body movement isn't perfect. There is a greater risk of hand injury on a makiwara than the bag. I feel that the best karate waza is learned on the makiwara as opposed to the bag, but I train with both. Either way, to truly learn karate, some form of heavy impact training is an absolute must.
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#140200 - 05/09/05 03:10 PM Re: Makiwara or no Makiwara [Re: AgenT]
shotokanwarrior19 Offline
Member

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 129
Loc: Cortland, OH, USA
I have a makiwara board at my house and i use it occasionally, and my dojo also has them. I don't use them on a daily basis because i have a heavy bag i use more often, but i think they are a good training tool for accuracy and power, the old masters really stressed the use of makiwara board training, so i'm sure there is good reason for why they did.
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#140201 - 05/09/05 03:27 PM Re: Makiwara or no Makiwara [Re: AgenT]
sweep the leg Offline
Member

Registered: 10/12/04
Posts: 48
I agree with Al's points above. if you don't hit a makiwara, you are limiting your training.

Makiwara is great for traing karates' straight punches. use the bag for boxing punches.

if your joints hurt, you may be using a bad makiwara, maybe bad technique.

makiwara should be springy. lean into it in front stance & cross punch. lift front leg. bodyweight should lean it back a few inches, but still supported.

when you hit, drive the surface back a few inches. penetrate through the target. don't bounce off.

makiwara gives great feedback. you can't hide any glitches in technique. also unforgiving if you hit it poorly.

have a good striking surface. nothing fancy, old flip flop soles will do.

if i have to straigh punch a bag, i prefer a hanging one from a free standing. regardless, both react differently to straight punches. train hooks on bag.

makiwara's great for building power. how do you expect to knock someone down/out if you always hit the air?

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#140202 - 05/09/05 05:00 PM Re: Makiwara or no Makiwara [Re: sweep the leg]
nenipp Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/13/04
Posts: 1205
I'm pretty close to Al on this one too.
I used to have a makiwara and will make a new one in or near my new house, meanwhile I use old cartyres as substitute (a bit hard on contact, but with good give).

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#140203 - 05/10/05 03:30 PM Re: Makiwara or no Makiwara [Re: AgenT]
Petjut84 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 102
be careful because if you hit it too much you will lose your flexibility later in life. I still condition my hands but only hit something hard about once a week and the other times a phone book. Not only that but if you train for that tense karate power than you will be trained not to have the relaxed shocking power. You should train both kinds and learn how to relax your muscles and then converge not just tense and hit really hard. I had to untrain myself for about a year and a half after 5 years of karate to develop the different kind of explosive power for silat.

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#140204 - 05/10/05 05:12 PM Re: Makiwara or no Makiwara [Re: Petjut84]
Sanchin Offline
Member

Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 174
Proper makiwara training will give you power to knock back a 2000 lb heavy bag, as opposed to proper bag training will give you enough power to knock back the amount you train on, ie if you train on a 100lb heavy bag, dont expect to be able to knock back a 300lb bag.

The makiwara must be properly made and trained on though, not very many people do this, most people just take a big ole 2x4, slap it into the ground and put some rope around it.

The heavy bags best aspect is the development of distancing, timing, and foot work, along with attribute training - power, speed, agility, endurance, etc...
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#140205 - 05/18/05 04:40 PM Re: Makiwara or no Makiwara [Re: AgenT]
Petjut84 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 102
i think striking something is good. Striking something hard is good but not too often. I mostly just hit a phone book while i am sitting on the floor with all parts of the hands. The point more than conditioning is to develop power and hit "through" it. I think you can develop more relaxed power too if you hit something not so hard. ALso practice hitting it about an inch away and without using more tension gradually build up power.

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#140206 - 05/18/05 05:03 PM Re: Makiwara or no Makiwara [Re: Sanchin]
MattJ Offline
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Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote by Sanchin -

Quote:

Proper makiwara training will give you power to knock back a 2000 lb heavy bag,




BWA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

I sure hope that was a typo, my friend. Makiwara training is hard on the joints and has not been proven to be any more beneficial than bag work.
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#140207 - 05/18/05 05:11 PM Re: Makiwara or no Makiwara [Re: MattJ]
nenipp Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/13/04
Posts: 1205
Makiwara is beneficial in an other way than bagwork, and it has not been proven to be hard on the joints (for all I know)

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#140208 - 05/18/05 05:19 PM Re: Makiwara or no Makiwara [Re: nenipp]
MattJ Offline
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Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote by nenipp -

Quote:

Makiwara is beneficial in an other way than bagwork




How so? Please explain.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#140209 - 05/18/05 05:28 PM Re: Makiwara or no Makiwara [Re: MattJ]
shoshinkan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
I train on the makiwara twice a week for about 20 minutes a time. I have done this for just over 6 months. befor ethat it was a sand when but not regular.

I do tsuki, uraken, shuto, enpi, tetsui both hands and use dit jow lotion after (spelling!).

Personally I think it has improved my karate, definatly improved my strikes focus and timing, being relaxed and tense correctly, I was far to tensed before and working against myself. definatly more power being generated now with less effort. also the hands feel stronger.

I also train on the bag and that has its place as well but for me the maki has its own unique benefits.

I also highly appriciate the 'mental' discipline that the maki brings and feel that it helps me to 'focus' before a lesson, weird kind of meditation.

Its important to have a flexiable makiwara correctly padded to avoid injury IMO.

For me its an important part of okinawan karate and shouldnt be overlooked.

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#140210 - 05/19/05 05:00 PM Re: Makiwara or no Makiwara [Re: AgenT]
JasonM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 2502
Does anyone know of a good site that shows how to build a makiwara? I found this one....But it seemed pretty vague..

http://www.ctr.usf.edu/shotokan/makiwara.html
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#140211 - 05/19/05 05:15 PM Re: Makiwara or no Makiwara [Re: JasonM]
shoshinkan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
this is a superb resource for quality tips -

www.karatetips.com/articles/howtomakeamakiwara.asp

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#140212 - 05/19/05 05:21 PM Re: Makiwara or no Makiwara [Re: shoshinkan]
JasonM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 2502
Very nice and with pictures...lol

After I found sites selling it for 300 bucks, i decided to make my own...

Thanks...
_________________________
90 percent of good abs is your nutrition

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#140213 - 05/19/05 05:24 PM Re: Makiwara or no Makiwara [Re: JasonM]
shoshinkan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
for those in the uk this is also a good site,

www.makiwarapost.co.uk

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#427874 - 06/22/10 07:37 AM Re: Makiwara or no Makiwara [Re: AgenT]
Shizen Offline
Newbie

Registered: 06/22/10
Posts: 7
I believe Makiwara training has its place, as does heavy bag training.

Makiwara first:
Makiwara are less forgiving. If aspects of your striking such as focus, posture, distance, etc are not optimal you will "feel it" immediately when striking a properly constructed makiwara. Listen to this feedback, to your body and find the best way. If you are inexperienced discuss what you find with your teacher. Many esteemed karateka agree that “a makiwara will talk to you”.
Problems with Makiwara training come from impatience, i.e. practitioners who rush to "hit it hard", and feel if their hands don't get bloodied and later calloused they aren't achieving anything. If you plan to train for many years, then start gently, experimenting and then slowly build up to more powerful striking with healthy form over a period of months. Concern yourself with good technique first, power second.
In my opinion one of the most important benefits of makiwara training is that it can eventually become a mental/spiritual exercise of unleashing the whole of one's power and focus onto an inanimate object. It is entirely consuming and can bring about a new level of self-awareness. We all seek to gauge ourselves, to know ourselves. You may seek a powerful punch, but with proper practice you may uncover a sense of your fighting spirit that only becomes evident with time and commitment.

Heavy Bag:
I believe heavy bags are good for experimentation, for endurance training and for "mixing it up". The shape and “give” of the bag allows you to try a vast number of new techniques with low risk of injury, but it does not necessarily encourage good form and the “forgiving” bag can lead to bad habits. While makiwara training emphasizes static technique and repetition, the bag allows variety and spontaneity. A heavy bag that moves about also requires good timing and distance to strike effectively. You may find that if you practice on both heavy bag and makiwara, the makiwara training helps you to "shock" the bag with more focussed, precise strikes, while the bag will allow you to deliver combinations of strikes at a highly varied pace incorporating both straight and circular techniques. This allows a certain freedom in heavy bag practice that can bring about a different flow and expression of energy than the makiwara. I also feel that the heavy bag is particularly good for training to strike with larger parts of the body – the feet, elbows and knees.


Thank you for reading.

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#427886 - 06/22/10 11:28 AM Re: Makiwara or no Makiwara [Re: Shizen]
Ronin1966 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 3116
Loc: East Coast, United States
Hello Shizen:

Today, why would we need a makiwara?

A bag speaks to the striker identically to a makiwara, if we are even slightly awake? Flailing blindly, in lust with watching the bag swing away, and mistaking that to be power...
bad mechanical technique, the shouting a bag can do seems identical...

If Okinawans, Chinese had synthetic leather, or heavy canvas would makiwara exist? What is so unique about a makiwara that makes it critically fundamental, necessary to martial practice? I offer that the water bladders of modern bags would have been revered...

Why maintain a "technology"/tool which appears to be redundant or even of lesser value?

Jeff

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#427910 - 06/24/10 11:03 AM Re: Makiwara or no Makiwara [Re: Ronin1966]
Shizen Offline
Newbie

Registered: 06/22/10
Posts: 7


Hello Jeff.

The Makiwara requires more precision in regard to which part of the hand is used to deliver the strike, for example in the reverse punch making contact only with the points of the first two knuckles. Allow me to clarify that in my mind we are talking about a makiwara with a flat leather pad, where all of the power you can generate is transmitted by perhaps 2cm square of the forefist knuckles. (please try a Google Image search for "shureido makiwara" - you may know Shureido as the respected brand of traditional Okinawan karate equipment). A makiwara fitted with a thick foam pad or other "cushion" would not be as effective.

With the heavy bag, you can deliver the same reverse punch but a portion of the rest of the fist will invariably make contact with the bag, because the bag is both rounded and a softer striking surface -leather/vinyl/canvas stuffed with rags/water/sand. Of course bags vary in their firmness, but a makiwara is leather on top of wood (beech, oak, cedar), so the contact surface is flat, rigid and harder, with the post portion of the makiwara absorbing the striking energy as it moves and snaps back. This instant rebound of the makiwara also tests one’s ability to transfer shock, whereas for some people, especially intermeadiates and beginners, their punches may “push” a bag to some degree.

With respect, have you tried this kind of makiwara before? If not and you can get to one, hit it and then hit the bag.. I believe you will find the difference. Also, if you practice tamashiwara (breaking), makiwara practice better prepares you for advanced tests of power. I do not believe I could break several non-spaced concrete slabs with a punch by bag training alone. While breaking inanimate objects is not a valid test of fighting ability, it is a good test of courage and raw striking power. And in real self-defense it is an advantage to have this degree of development rather than to not have it.

So winding this down, I would not advocate training in any particular way simply because so-and-so said we must.. 20, 50 or 100 years ago. My opinion comes from my own long experience, experimentation and results. If you have also sought these answers dilligently for many years and have come to the conclusion that Makiwara is inappropriate in today’s world, I respect your opinion and am curious “why”?

I hope this is a more complete answer – thank you for your comments. Best wishes in budo.

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#427914 - 06/24/10 12:23 PM Re: Makiwara or no Makiwara [Re: Shizen]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
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Registered: 11/25/04
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Loc: York PA. USA
Hi Shizen. While I agree with the thrust of your post, I have to disagree with you here:

Quote:
Also, if you practice tamashiwara (breaking), makiwara practice better prepares you for advanced tests of power. I do not believe I could break several non-spaced concrete slabs with a punch by bag training alone.


I'm sure you could - I have done so. I didn't use a makiwara for the first time until a bit after the below video was taken. Both methods can get good results, and IMHO, bag work has a bit less chance of injury in it's favor.

Check the 5th video link in the first post here:

http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=427346#Post427346
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#427917 - 06/24/10 02:03 PM Re: Makiwara or no Makiwara [Re: MattJ]
Kathryn Offline
Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 262
Loc: Washington, DC
I haven't personally used one, but the traditional makiwara setup with the padding over it seems to be similar to the traditional tamishigri setup of bamboo mats over a wood core. Could it be that it was constructed to simulate muscle over bone?

It just seems to me that the Chinese and the Japanese would have been capable of devising a bag if they wanted one. Boxing doesn't focus on hitting long bones, and so the bag makes more sense for that art.
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#427920 - 06/24/10 07:47 PM Re: Makiwara or no Makiwara [Re: Shizen]
Ronin1966 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 3116
Loc: East Coast, United States
Hello Shizen:

Striking makiwara correctly is effectively punching into a springy surface. But how would that be different from any bag? Hit incorrectly a bag moves away versus bends/absorbs the strike(s).

If penetration does not occur or is insufficent the bag swings like a metronome away from its "attacker" and then presumedly returns for more "incompetance".

Why is spring (makiwara) feedback signifigant/meaningful? The bag speaks just as plainly. In this medium our respective years of experience are unimportant. Rather our ability to explain our ideas/concepts which have any real merit...

Having no experience per se with this particular tool, I look forward to your (patience) explaination. There are many who could find value and explore the makiwara tool if described well enough... wink

Will a makiwara be of value to the bones of those no longer young? Can (should?) one begin its use past a certain point in ones life?

We appreciate your time...
Jeff

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#427921 - 06/24/10 08:07 PM Re: Makiwara or no Makiwara [Re: Kathryn]
Ronin1966 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 3116
Loc: East Coast, United States
Hello Kathryn:

I miss the old gif's, there was a bowing gif which I would sorely like to use towards you in your explaination...

I have had this discussion many, many times over the years this is the first I recall anyone suggesting the makiwara simulated the human "long bone" structure.

Why does makiwara require some flexability to it given that idea? I know many, who's striking surface have ZERO give or spring-back. They punch the lolly columns of their homes crazy or worse. Everything I have ever encountered that made any sense on the topic demanded spring back/counter thrust for lack of better words. Many punch insanely hard objects that do not move in the least.

Ever seen the movie "BUDO"... ? (The choo choo train scene grin)

Jeff


Edited by Ronin1966 (06/24/10 08:11 PM)
Edit Reason: better clarification

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#427935 - 06/25/10 08:48 AM Re: Makiwara or no Makiwara [Re: Ronin1966]
Kathryn Offline
Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 262
Loc: Washington, DC
Originally Posted By: Ronin1966
Hello Kathryn:

I miss the old gif's, there was a bowing gif which I would sorely like to use towards you in your explaination...

I have had this discussion many, many times over the years this is the first I recall anyone suggesting the makiwara simulated the human "long bone" structure.

Why does makiwara require some flexability to it given that idea? I know many, who's striking surface have ZERO give or spring-back. They punch the lolly columns of their homes crazy or worse. Everything I have ever encountered that made any sense on the topic demanded spring back/counter thrust for lack of better words. Many punch insanely hard objects that do not move in the least.

Ever seen the movie "BUDO"... ? (The choo choo train scene grin)

Jeff


Jeff: I'm seeing it that way because I am an EMT, and I do weapons training. A good warrior should know the anatomy of what he's cutting into, right? The 'cutting' techniques that you see with the tall bamboo setups are designed to mimic the human anatomy in texture, if not appearance. You have to get used to the feel of cutting through muscle and bone.

That's what makes me suspect that something similar is going on with the makiwara, but again I haven't dealt with one in person. Maybe someday I'll get to see one.



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#428087 - 07/03/10 03:36 AM Re: Makiwara or no Makiwara [Re: MattJ]
Shizen Offline
Newbie

Registered: 06/22/10
Posts: 7
Good Morning and sorry for the delay in replying.

It is a subjective thing. I prefer the makiwara, but would not say training without one prevents you from progressing and learning. Like you, I did not come to makiwara training until after I began advanced training. Now I use both a 100lb leather bag and a traditional makiwara, and feel the makiwara training has given me a better insight into the kind of striking I feel is closest to "one punch, one life". Speaking personally, it has helped me find new ground within my technique and develop a more focussed fighting spirit.

I believe martial artist who have not tried makiwara or discount it without really being open to new learning (esp from an old or traditional source) would benefit from using it under proper instruction. However, not using one does not preclude one from developing into a good matial artist who can generate powerful techniques, as you demonstrate in your video.

In terms of injury, you are right that the makiwara is "riskier" in terms of injury to the hand. But I advocate careful, progressive training and have never suffered any serious injury nor have any chronic symptoms after years of practice.

Best Wishes.

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#428088 - 07/03/10 04:13 AM Re: Makiwara or no Makiwara [Re: Ronin1966]
Shizen Offline
Newbie

Registered: 06/22/10
Posts: 7
Jeff, you raise interesting points. Apologies for any lack of clarity or detail.. I wish I had more time.

On the subject of age, I think it is down to the individual. I personally have stopped breaking things with my head now that I am 40! But I continue with makiwara training. I think there may be a general misconception that only beating your hands to a bloody pulp will do, especially with the younger, gung-ho set. Simply pressing the fist into the makiwara and "finding your stance" is beneficial. I would not want to see a 50-year old man hitting a makiwara to the point of seriously brusing his knuckles or breaking the skin. When I was a young man of 20 my mother started karate training for fun and self-defense (at the age of 58) and she enjoyed experimenting with the makiwara and commented that while she would not want to hit it every day, she couldn't "push it around" like the bag - her comments, for what they may be worth..

Re the spring-back action of a makiwara vs the bag, I believe the makiwara forces you to find the most efficient method of shock-transfer. For me, the principle of "for every action there is an opposite and equal reaction" is more immeadiately apparant in the makiwara than the heavy bag. If you strike with full power, the makiwara "wants" to instantly transfer the shock back into your hand, arm and body and into the ground. This teaches correct posture and stance. I find a bag absorbs and to some degree dissipates striking energy because it swings away and the shock is distributed from the point of contact into the large volume of the bag. While this is like hitting a human body, the makiwara forces you to cope with harder, instant "feedback", and can force a practioner to think more about the underlying physical principles. My opinion of course, and I do not mean to cause offense to anyone who advocate bag training over makiwara, but I do feel strongly about this.

I want to clearly state this is my best attempt at an objective explanation, but I am sure the makiwara is not for everyone. But I would urge anyone who trains to find out for themselves, as there is no substitute for experience!

Best Wishes.

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#428089 - 07/03/10 04:16 AM Re: Makiwara or no Makiwara [Re: Ronin1966]
Shizen Offline
Newbie

Registered: 06/22/10
Posts: 7
Dear Jeff and Kathryn, please see my recent comments on the principle of "shock transfer".

Regards

Shizen

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#428181 - 07/08/10 10:41 AM Re: Makiwara or no Makiwara [Re: MattJ]
Ronin1966 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 3116
Loc: East Coast, United States
Hello Matt:

Thanks for taking part!

What's your take re: makiwari and "age"? Any idea what the thinking might be? SOme point it isn't a recommended activity?

What about the healing ointments and balms of said training? The testosterone <sp.?> young, tough guy aspect got brought over, but did the mandatory healing part of that training come too?

Jeff

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#428182 - 07/08/10 10:56 AM Re: Makiwara or no Makiwara [Re: Shizen]
Ronin1966 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 3116
Loc: East Coast, United States
Hello Shizen:

We appreciate your very patient efforts, as always thank you for taking part!

What is your take re: the necessary healing aspect of this particular training? Should we even start it, if that part is non-existant, missing from the curriciliun (ie only the tough guy stuff was kept not the healing formulas for it)?

I wish I had read the new posts before responding directly to Matt's, given your mothers experience, what is your take re: the age question? There a point, an age its openly contra-indicated, that one should not start for the first time... IYE?

Growth plates and so forth forbid makiwara to children. Any idea how you determine a starting age solely becase of their growing, soft bones where even the potential, a whisper of/for perminant damage removes it from their training?

Sincerely.
Jeff

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