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#139248 - 05/06/05 02:45 PM Three pp's = knockout?
SANCHIN31 Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3783
Loc: Arkansas, U.S.
I've read about pressure points,seen demos,watched videos,and experimented with them. I've heard several people say and even demonstrate that three corresponding points mean a ko.I've found this not to be the case in many instances.Not everyone is equal in this area.Musclemass and body structure makes for a big difference.Some people even seem to be immune to them. So are pressure points worth the study? What have you found in your study of them?

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#139249 - 05/06/05 05:11 PM Re: Three pp's = knockout? [Re: SANCHIN31]
Sanchin Offline
Member

Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 174
what are the chances of actually being able to hit pressure points in a real life - GROSS motor skill situation?
_________________________
"Everything is already, and always will be given" - Our New Pope. B

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#139250 - 05/06/05 06:42 PM Re: Three pp's = knockout? [Re: Sanchin]
SANCHIN31 Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3783
Loc: Arkansas, U.S.
Instead of answering a question you add another to it. Thanks.
There's over 700 pressure points in the body,the chances of you hitting them in an actual fight are quite good.
If I made 700 circles on you with a marker don't you think you could hit at least a few properly?

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#139251 - 05/06/05 10:34 PM Re: Three pp's = knockout? [Re: SANCHIN31]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
Absolutely hogwash. It's a marketing ploy designed to make you ask, "which 3", or "which 5" to kill.

We know from TCM that pressure points affect the meridian energy flow, and the associated internal organs. Which in practical MA and SD terms is somewhat limited in its application, although it is useful for understanding the Eastern perspective of the human system from a holistic perspective.

From a practical perspective, you want one of 4 things (in order of severity) to happen:
1. Instant pain
2. Involuntary muscle contraction or extension (so you can apply a joint lock/takedown/limb destruction)
3. Neurological shutdown (i.e. KO)
4. Cardio/respiratory arrest (clinical death)

If you create enough of a sensory overload, you can cause a neurological shutdown, which could put the person into a state of shock which could lead to cardiac and respiratory arrest.

Pressure points are simply a way of indicating where on the body one can access baroreceptors, pain receptors and (peripheral) nerves, and in some cases, underlying veins and arteries.

Affecting the peripheral nervous system directly can affect the autonomic nervous system. Imagine the body like a complex machine, and the circulatory/nervous systems like an array of electrical wiring connected to a computer (the brain). Short-circuit an electrical pathway and the computer shuts down (KO!) as a protection mechanism.

Also, if you hit an artery correctly and compress it in the right place, or cause plague to dislodge and clog the artery, what do you think will happen? If you have done a St John's Ambulance Senior 1st Aid or advanced 1st Aid, you'll know that "pressure points" are used in places to slow down the rate of arterial/venous bleeding.

I'm not denigrating PP theory. I think it's useful for understanding how the body works from a holistic perspective, and where the access points are to affect the internals, but for a more practical aplication perspective, I feel, it is also necessary to understand the MWM perspective as well.

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#139252 - 05/07/05 04:40 AM Re: Three pp's = knockout? [Re: eyrie]
SANCHIN31 Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3783
Loc: Arkansas, U.S.
TCM? MWM?
_________________________
Skinny,Bald,and Handsome! Fightingarts Warrior of the year

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#139253 - 05/07/05 06:03 AM Re: Three pp's = knockout? [Re: SANCHIN31]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
TCM = Traditional Chinese Medicine
MWM = Modern Western Medicine

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#139254 - 05/09/05 12:28 PM Re: Three pp's = knockout? [Re: eyrie]
BuDoc Offline
The doctor will see you now

Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 1067
Loc: USA and Abroad
I love that guy ^

Page
_________________________
Medical Advisor for the Somolian National Sumo Team

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#139255 - 05/09/05 09:59 PM Re: Three pp's = knockout? [Re: BuDoc]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
The feeling's mutual????

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#139256 - 05/19/05 12:42 AM Re: Three pp's = knockout? [Re: SANCHIN31]
Demonologist437 Offline
Member

Registered: 03/03/05
Posts: 159
Loc: Hodunk, Illinios
Basically, what eyrie(I am SO sorry if I misspelled your name, I can't see your posts in this screen) said is true, but you can kill with five strikes. Essentially what you are doing though, is causing and overload and shutting down vital organs, which as we know, are definetly needed to keep breathing. We obviously don't test this all the time,
but we have come close and have seen how the body reacts from there. Also, the likelyhood of actually hitting five points in the exact perfect fashion are not only unesscary(misspelled that too but, meh..) but difficult to do. Usually, if you follow your techniques properly, three solid hits should be all you need to put them down long enough to get out of that situation, four if you thought you didn't get a good reaction on the last hit. So yes, 5 solid strikes can mean death and 3 can certainly cause knockout, but don't expect to be Dim-Making' everything in sight.
_________________________
"Success is a process, not a destination. Have faith in your ability."~Bruce Lee

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#139257 - 05/23/05 09:04 PM Re: Three pp's = knockout? [Re: SANCHIN31]
Kintama Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 2724
Loc: Massachusetts
I don't know about 3 pp's -
but I saw 2 tt's before that were a knockout!


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#139258 - 05/23/05 10:31 PM Re: Three pp's = knockout? [Re: Kintama]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
REALLY? Prove it. PM me with the documentary evidence that that's (if at all) possible. :P

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#139259 - 06/04/05 08:12 PM Re: Three pp's = knockout? [Re: eyrie]
cks_cropper Offline
Member

Registered: 03/04/05
Posts: 63
Wow, you seem very clued up on things like this. Could be an interesting read if you have any books to reccomend?

Im currently learning Totite Jutsu which is all about pressure points and im finding it very interesting. Its strange how the body is built and works.

thanx
CKS

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#139260 - 06/04/05 09:35 PM Re: Three pp's = knockout? [Re: cks_cropper]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
Several karate teachers have told me this: First learn to heal, then how to kill.

So, I went and read A LOT of material from anatomy, TCM, acupuncture, shiatsu, qi/ki, and anything remotely related to the subject. Uncovered more questions than answers, but learnt a whole bunch of "interesting" stuff in the process.

My advice would be to do your own reasearch. You'll find that you'll approach it in a much more personally gratifying way than if I were to *tell* you what books to read.

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#139261 - 06/04/05 09:37 PM Re: Three pp's = knockout? [Re: eyrie]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
Hey Kintama, I'm still waiting on photographic evidence of those 2 tt's knockout!

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#139262 - 06/06/05 01:08 PM Re: Three pp's = knockout? [Re: eyrie]
cks_cropper Offline
Member

Registered: 03/04/05
Posts: 63
Cheers for the info. Sounds like it could be fun and interesting learning.

thanx
CKS

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#139263 - 06/06/05 11:24 PM Re: Three pp's = knockout? [Re: cks_cropper]
Ryushosen Offline
Newbie

Registered: 06/02/05
Posts: 13
On pressure points. I might just be lucky but on me none of hte major points really work. The one between the thumb and knee is ignorable. The one on the back of the neck doesnt hurt at all and niether do the forarm points. I doubt 3 points will knock u out. Stop watching crouching tiger hidden dragon

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#139264 - 06/07/05 12:31 AM Re: Three pp's = knockout? [Re: Ryushosen]
SANCHIN31 Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3783
Loc: Arkansas, U.S.
Ryushosen,
I know for a fact that three corresponding points with the proper angle and direction will knock you out.It's happened to me and I've done it. You more than likely do not know the proper angle and direction of any points to make them work or hurt.
_________________________
Skinny,Bald,and Handsome! Fightingarts Warrior of the year

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#139265 - 06/07/05 11:00 AM Re: Three pp's = knockout? [Re: Ryushosen]
Kempoman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/15/00
Posts: 1484
Loc: Houston, TX
Quote:

On pressure points. I might just be lucky but on me none of hte major points really work.




So then, do the 'minor'(whatever that means) points work on you?


Quote:

The one between the thumb and knee is ignorable.




Yes, must watch out for that 'one between the thumb and knee'.


Quote:

The one on the back of the neck doesnt hurt at all




Aw come on, not even just a wittle-bitty-bit?


Quote:

and niether do the forarm points.




Well, your forearms may be overdeveloped from 'special' kata.



Quote:

I doubt 3 points will knock u out.




Well then, that settles it. We can all go home now. We have been set straight by this paragon of pressure point knowledge and information.

...


On a more serious note...It is obvious from your limited (and incorrect) information and your seemingly limited ability to write complete sentances that you haved failed to make your case.

I am growing weary of repeating myself but three points do not in-fact equal a KO. Just striking (or rubbing or pushing or vibrating) three points in succession will not do anything without proper point selection, proper manipulation, proper angle, and proper direction of applied force. I suggest that you are either trying to activate the points on yourself (quit it) or you have no idea what Bl-10 means and are confusing vital points with pressure points (as is most often the case). I also suggest that you have never had anyone with these skills work them on you. There are quite a few billion people out there now who claim to study/teach/master pressure point fighting, most of whom have no idea what they are doing.

Kempo(hitting myself in the 'one between the thumb and knee' repeatedly)man
_________________________
Yeah, if you want to get dry-humped and dookie-licked.

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#139266 - 06/07/05 01:11 PM Re: Three pp's = knockout? [Re: Kempoman]
Ryushosen Offline
Newbie

Registered: 06/02/05
Posts: 13
lol sorry bout that. Meant thumb and index finger. Wasnt thinking.


Edited by Ryushosen (06/07/05 01:14 PM)

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#139267 - 06/07/05 02:29 PM Re: Three pp's = knockout? [Re: Ryushosen]
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
Makes little difference in light of the rest of your post.
_________________________
Enjoy life while you can, you never know when things will change.

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#139268 - 06/09/05 08:58 AM Re: Three pp's = knockout? [Re: Ryushosen]
Pess Offline
Member

Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 27
I'd say three could knock you out.

Poke the eyes, kick the balls, chop to back of neck.

Show me the man that isn't down after that, and I'll show you someone that's not a man ^_^

On a serious note however, what is the difference between a vital point and a pressure point? Most of the time, if I'm aiming for a target, it would be like the side of the elbow, middle of the bicep, middle of the thigh, the points that make that limb hard to use for a while. Which ones are these?

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#139269 - 06/09/05 09:52 AM Re: Three pp's = knockout? [Re: Pess]
Kempoman Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/15/00
Posts: 1484
Loc: Houston, TX
Quote:

I'd say three could knock you out.

Poke the eyes, kick the balls, chop to back of neck.

Show me the man that isn't down after that, and I'll show you someone that's not a man ^_^




Yep, that ought to do it. But seriously, three is a guideline and not a rule. Not just any three will do. Hell, you could sixteen and not to anything or just one and get hit paydirt.

Quote:

On a serious note however, what is the difference between a vital point and a pressure point? Most of the time, if I'm aiming for a target, it would be like the side of the elbow, middle of the bicep, middle of the thigh, the points that make that limb hard to use for a while. Which ones are these?




Most of these are located near actupuncture points. These are generally used for limb destruction and to destroy balance. There are ways to make them work better. Take the one on the outside of the mid-thigh fir example. To specifically locate it stand straight and allow the hands to hang at your sides. The point is located at the tip of the middle-finger. It needs to be struck straight in towards the other side of the leg. To make this point more 'active' slap the uke's hand somewhere behind the index-knuckle and the wrist. Now strike the point on the mid-thigh.

Have fun!

Kempoman
_________________________
Yeah, if you want to get dry-humped and dookie-licked.

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#139270 - 07/16/05 09:24 AM Re: Three pp's = knockout? [Re: Kempoman]
funstick5000 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 759
Loc: West Yorkshire, England
sort of going along the lines of what pess said the best pressure points i've ever used in contact are the solar plexus and the throat.

a good hit to the solar plexus (the area under the ribs where they come to an upside down v shape) interferes with the diaphagram and results in instant severe winding and if done well enough can force you're opponent to vomit.

a punch to the throat heavily restricts breathing thus stops the opponent fighting. the throat is a harder target because its obviously easier to protect.

either way they're not getting up and its a bit simpler than learning complex slapping/finger movements.

oh and the person who says the chop to the base of the neck doesn't work is wrong, i've seen it done by my old karate sensei to one of the more senior and willing students.
_________________________
Go seek the advise of a qualified instructor.

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#139271 - 07/17/05 01:01 AM Re: Three pp's = knockout? [Re: funstick5000]
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
Quote:

sort of going along the lines of what pess said the best pressure points i've ever used in contact are the solar plexus and the throat.




Those are vital areas not pressure points, though they do contain pressure points.
_________________________
Enjoy life while you can, you never know when things will change.

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#139272 - 07/17/05 07:27 AM Re: Three pp's = knockout? [Re: laf7773]
funstick5000 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 759
Loc: West Yorkshire, England
oh right. well whatever works lol
_________________________
Go seek the advise of a qualified instructor.

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