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#13741 - 02/05/05 10:50 AM Re: Bushido Acadamy of Martial Arts (UK)

I would like to clear up one point that is under scrutiny,what is the average time to get to black belt/teacher status;
From my knowledge the AVERAGE time is 3 yrs
Many people I know have taken about this time,few have been quicker,some have taken longer,as for myself it took me 4 yrs.
The point here is quality/skill of student and there are a RARE few who have obtained black belt before 3 yrs and they obviously put in more practice time than others,lets face it if you had the spare time and no other social loyalties then you could devote masses of your spare time to rigorous training..take a look at professional boxers who train most days for hours and even those who wish to be successful boxers will sacrifice time to gain exellence.

Many have said training goes from 1/1 to 10/1 but in reality most lessons I was involved in were averaging 3/1 and this small group allowed for kumite or combat applications with another live partner,or at times while a sensei was focused on one individual it gave me the chance to "bed" in certain parts of a kata until the sensei would see my progress and offer more guidance on my kata.The training has always been very focused and allowed me to have a teacher who was aware of my every move as often a sensei would see a mistake whilst I was "bedding in" my katas etc..thus allowing faster progress as a persons actions weren,t lost in the whole class so mistakes could be pinpointed and corrected faster,as I,ve said before there were times in other MA's where I felt lost as whether I was compentently performing but the large classes made it harder for teachers to see this.

All the stories about the past of the school pose interesting questions but non of them change the fact that I am of sound mind and feel a greater sense of self control and MA's discipline.My MA's have truly never been better not because B.A.M.A are the top school(which I do not claim)but because I understand more of what I am taught sooner than I had ever in other schools because of a more personal base of "private" tuition.

As for the concern over Master Chusan I can only say that as worried as people are I have seen no actual 1st hand evidence that has worried me.
I have find Master Chusan to be a firm but serene leader.At times I have been a steadfast "warrior" who learns from his Master of the school and at times I have been relaxed and jovial in Master Chusan's company and zen lectures.I would expect no more or less from a mam who is passionate about his school and who wishes to forge a path of unbending quality but at no time has Master Chusan scared me.
As for mind control I feel sure this thought could be applied to all manner of things;(advertising,television,press,goverment,
school,parents,jobs etc...) so if this school is worrying then take a look at the whole world,now that's worrying.
Another long post,sorry but that's me.

#13742 - 02/05/05 11:10 AM Re: Bushido Acadamy of Martial Arts (UK)

Also wanted to add,SECRET TRAINING...sorry to burst any bubbles but I have not been offered nor heard of any SECRET TRAINING...the only thing I was led to believe was that certain weekends and days of training with Retainers or the Masters would benefit your MA as these people have greater experience of MA...which makes sense,learn from the wiser and you will learn quicker as is the case in all walks of life...Experience counts towards better understanding/teaching and I certainly learn more fom these individuals...and I am not waiting for the great secrets for I know the true secrets of MA's will evolve as my ability evovles,again as with all things in life...experience is it's own reward,the secret of understanding and wisdom.
As for the 15 debate I have paid 12 per hr with a Wing chun instructor (1/1) who knew his MA but seemed at a loss to guiding me as a competent teacher and so I stopped private lessons as I felt they were going nowhere.I did not complain I merely moved why not question that man?..because it does not matter..he made his rules and I made my choice.....

#13743 - 02/06/05 01:32 AM Re: Bushido Acadamy of Martial Arts (UK)


again, no one is doubting your faith.
so why do you continue to justify the school?

We all know you love it and will stay - so what.

All that was said was that if 15 an hour for private tuition is being charged then students-instructors should be clear that although it starts off as 1 to 1 it doesn't stay that way, that pretty soon classes will move into 2s and 3s and more.

One of the best martial artists in the country, the master of a system, charges 35 per hour for private tuition. One on one. Loads of attention, enough information for students to work on every day for months. Does pete ever do 1 to 1 personal tuition and if so how much does he charge?

If they want to charge 250 people 60 for a 4 hour seminar - so what.
Or 35 people 150 for a weekend course - so what.
charging 250 30 for a grading 3 times a year - so what.

If pete wants to spend half the year on a luxury cruise ship (promoting zen and writing pods), then returning for 6 months to work in the UK- so what

I stand corrected in my point about blackbelts, apparently it takes 4 years to get there. I wonder why I knew of lots of people that got there in 2 years (sometimes 1 year)?
Like I said previously I am not attacking bama about how much time it takes to get to blackbelt. I am just answering the questions, YOU are justifying, YOU are under attack. Why?

Personally I have no problem with the time people get to blackbelt in the bama. Why should I, its none of my business.

facts are presented.
if you have no record in your mind of these facts, why even say anything?

I hope that you understand my point.

I appreciate your points about mind control and society, i do not agree that it can be tossed aside flippantly as "one of modern lifes things", you yourself quote bama teachings as honourable etc etc.

do you honestly see nothing slightly odd in petes writings?

(again)There are people in professional standing reading this post, cult seems to be written all over it.(not just my opinion)
I reckon that if you asked pete straight out if it was a cult that he would probably give a proud "yes".After all he has developed this from a seed, he has nurtured this for 25 years. Thats a lot of hard work.

why do people "read around" posts, choosing to be selective when answering?

Where did you get the reference for "secret training", i cant find it on any other posts.
did you just make it up? i might be wrong....please correct me.

it must very very secret if you havent been offered or heard of have proved that there is "secret training" by answering it.

[This message has been edited by liquidthoughtz (edited 02-06-2005).]

#13744 - 02/06/05 09:02 AM Re: Bushido Acadamy of Martial Arts (UK)

Hi liquidthoughtz,reference to "secret training" has been loosely mentioned by ex students on this thread on commenting how they believed they were being led to believe that to have further intensive training would yield "secrets" and so they said this was another aspect of "drawing" the student in to continue training and spending money.

My mentioning is not to prove it exists as if you read my comment I state I have never heard of any secret training.I cannot be bothered to scan the whole thread to prove this as the matter is irrelevant,I merely thought people had been moaning about some secret training,well it does not exist nor have the school proported it to exist,I do not lie as nothing is gained from lying on this matter,however feel free to believe what you want as you surely will.

As for my thoughts on the topic I guess as I stand in defence of the school I add nothing relevant to answering the "deeper" questions asked nor will I ever yield these answers because I do not have them,I am just one guy in all this and I guess you could say I am a "little fish" but for the record I must state that for all the negative things said about the school I still stand in utter support of B.A.M.A and have no problem with any aspect of the school.
all the best,

#13745 - 02/06/05 10:21 AM Re: Bushido Acadamy of Martial Arts (UK)


I must say I applaud your loyalty. It speaks volumes for your integrity and sense of decency, but I suspect you were already in possession of these attributes long before you had even heard of B.A.M.A. So they cannot in reality claim any credit for these characteristics you possess.

Overall though, whilst respecting and to a quite large extent admiring you for your tenacity in this debate, I have to say I'm still with liquidthoughts on this. Why? He seems to have delved further into this businesses philiosophy on command & control, and the techniques employed. To your credit you have sought to avoid that particular arena, but in my own opinion, liquid 'really does know'.

That is not any critisism of yourself though.


#13746 - 02/06/05 10:39 AM Re: Bushido Acadamy of Martial Arts (UK)

The power of faith is a strong defence, even to the power of truth.
You can seldom change someones religion (not that i would personally try anyway). Look at the history books to see how many lives have been lost to that endeavor.
Same with politics.
These beliefs are so strong usually due to being immersed in them since birth.
The fact that people can exibit such devotion to, lets face it, a hobby, that they have taken up in later life shows that strange things are being done on a subconcious level to many long term members of the BAMA.
I can understand how bad experiences at other schools lead to appreciating what the BAMA appear to offer, but there are excellent teachers who's students excell at their art for a fraction of the cost incurred by BAMA, Who's code of conduct teaches respect and honour without intimidation and faux samurai ethics. In short what you feel you have found, is not a treasure. You covet a nugget of fools gold in a cave, whilst others pluck diamonds from the ground around you.

#13747 - 02/06/05 01:17 PM Re: Bushido Acadamy of Martial Arts (UK)


Thanks for that one, although I had to read the last couple of sentences twice before the penny finaly dropped.

Quote; "The fact that people can exibit such devotion to, lets face it, a hobby, that they have taken up in later life shows that strange things are being done on a subconcious level to many long term members of the BAMA"!!

That is what I have been saying and getting blasted for. Put it another way, whilst I (thank God) have never been a member, I know a reasonable number who have been. They all tell the same story, (similar to Liquid but without as much detail, and I'm sure there is much more to come from him) and remember it is quite possible to be too close to the woods to see the trees. Put another way, "the bystander sees most".

Keep up the good work.


#13748 - 02/06/05 05:29 PM Re: Bushido Acadamy of Martial Arts (UK)

This is truly amaizing.

When I went away for a week we were on page 9ish (sorry you zen-ish followers) and now where are we? Sure I don't know.

Anyway, 2pennyworth more. Lets stop the bits about how much is charged - if you wamt to pay it pay it. I currently practice KI Aikido, where a private lesson with our chief instructor is about 40/50 per hour - you would need to judge yourself whether that is worthwhile (after the event of course - and if it isn't don't have another one) Courses 14 per 2 hour session - often 2 sessions in a day

I was awarded my 2nd Dan in Aikido in a pub (have certificate - can e'meil to any interested nerdy types) Good P***up

I am not the worlds most inteligent man (2ll's - homour) neither do I consider myself to be stupid. I choose to pay, I choose to train.

The point I am attempting to make - eventually, is:
1 We all have choices, and some of us may learn from our experiences (though not always and what we learn may not be the same as another person experiencing the same situation/stimulii.

2 What BAMA have done as a business enterprise is nothing new.

3 There will be many teachers in BAMA who are not in it for the money and will be good at what they do, how they teach etc.

4 My main concern - whether you want to continue with BAMA or not (it's a free world) is that in all the posting from people who support BAMA (apologies to those that have)nearly all support in secret. Why?
My user name has one letter more than my surname. My first name is Geoff. I was a founder member of Bushido. I am still alive and no threats have been made against me.

This last point seems particularly relevant in terms of the number of people stating that they feel got at! Over an anon forum with anon names - I'm getting too old for this.

Administrators - I think unless this issue can be resolved shortly (oh no it can't)in terms of the original posting, you need to close it

A chap I know trains with this group in the UK.
I looked on the EKGB site to see if they were a member but couldn't see them.
Anyone know anything about them.

OOps then I re-read the original posting and realised that it will never end.

Several spling errors corrected - such a pedant

[This message has been edited by skiggsy (edited 02-06-2005).]

#13749 - 02/07/05 04:12 AM Re: Bushido Acadamy of Martial Arts (UK)


I think the point is, that we are trying to find out what is going on now (today). Whilst your information is invaluable from a historical perspective, you seem to have been gone for quite some time.

Liquid's information would appear to be a little more up to date and, with the greatest respect, perhaps somewhat more relevant to our search for the truth of todays reality.

All organisations change as they grow older, some for the better others for the worse. Whilst during your time with them, B.A.M.A. may have been OK, it would have seemed to have festered since your departure. Oddly this is something which is to be found in other forums such as one on 'sword work' (not something I am involved with) but, it seems peculiar that the same debate is going on there as well, about the same organisation.

Hope you enjoyed your week off.


#13750 - 02/07/05 06:28 AM Re: Bushido Acadamy of Martial Arts (UK)


Your comments are valid and noted - no offence taken about my time away from BAMA and my current knowledge.

I continue to practice Aikido and live in Gloucester where BAMA originated and therefore bump into ex BAMA students from time to time (more so recently). They have their resaons for leaving and stories to tell but that is not my business, it's their's.

The point of my last posting was to look at the original posting, answer one or two of the issues raised throughout this thread and to try and draw a conclusion.

That conclusion is, that if we have not heard from senior BAMA teachers we are not likely to; that while their charges may be high and it may be pyramid selling, people have choices; how goood a teacher is etc, you will only know if you try it.

The real bottom line to this, is that there appear to be many people pro BAMA and many with negative stories to tell, which appear to balance each other out and anyone reading this thread has enough information to make up their own minds, which is why I am sugegsting closing the thread.

But hey I suspect this will run and run and what do people do when we have up to date information - well people are still left to make up their own minds.

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