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#137388 - 02/22/05 04:56 PM Ninja Climbing Claws (?)
Anonymous
Unregistered


I heard that the Ninja used claw-like attachments on the knuckles to scale trees and the like.... What are they called? And where can I get some?

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#137389 - 02/22/05 08:52 PM Re: Ninja Climbing Claws (?)
Anonymous
Unregistered


If my memory isn't betraying me, they're called shuko; I'm still far from certain of that, though. As for where to find them, they should be available at your usual ninja hardware store [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG].
Honestly, I have no idea of where - and if - you can get them. I've never heard of anyone manufacturing such things...

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#137390 - 02/23/05 12:20 AM Re: Ninja Climbing Claws (?)
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
They are called shuko and are also referred to as tekagi. They were used for climbing and a weapon. You can find them just about anywhere they sell the cheesy "ninja" weapons but most in mass production are far from quality. There are a few who make "traditional" shuko but they are hard to find unless you train in those circles. I can give you a website that sells "safe" shuko for training.
http://www.budoweapons.com/Online%20Catalog/Kakushi.htm

If you really want a real set i'm sure you can find someone who makes them either on e-budo.com or kutaki.com

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#137391 - 02/23/05 01:20 PM Re: Ninja Climbing Claws (?)
Anonymous
Unregistered


The shuko for the feet are called ashiko.

They are not used just for climbing but for catching swords and for giving an extra oomph to throwing techniques or open hand strikes..
http://www.bujinkan-duisburg.de/images/schuhe.jpg

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#137392 - 02/25/05 11:07 PM Re: Ninja Climbing Claws (?)
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
Climbing was one of the uses but by far not it's primary. They were use primarily for open hand techniques but i would shy far away from trying to catch a sword with them. I know there are techniques taught in the bujinkan for just that but i would chalk that up with the techniques i would never use.

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#137393 - 02/26/05 09:38 AM Re: Ninja Climbing Claws (?)
Anonymous
Unregistered


Just curious, why wouldn't you use the sword catching techniques?

Hatsumi souke has a couple of pages devoted to them in his book "Secret Techniques", if you're interested at all in looking at them. In one of them he 'caught' a sword with the ashiko on his foot, and kicked it away! Amazing stuff..

After I learned to keep my fingers out of the way I stopped getting whacked with bokken.

But I still sometimes get a crunched finger when working with the bou :P Go figure.

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#137394 - 02/26/05 11:22 AM Re: Ninja Climbing Claws (?)
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
Because after years of iaido and trying some of the catch techniques myself i don't see them as being very practical in a real situation. Not that i will ever be in a situation to need that type of technique. Like a lot of techniques in any style they don't work especially well when you don't know the technique the attacker will be using. They are good for helping you with your timing and distancing among other things, but when it comes to someone swinging a live blade at me with the intent to do more than give me a hair cut i think i will prefer to get out of the way and use the shuko for something more practical. Again, not like many of us will ever be in a fight with someone with a sword.

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#137395 - 02/27/05 05:28 PM Re: Ninja Climbing Claws (?)
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi, I`m Wilf and a Bujinkan practioner.

First of all: Please don`t practice with metall ones.

What I`ve read is - in my opinion- so far right except the uselessness against a sword.

I thought that to, until a couple of years ago, I tested the techniques myself.
I would not use primarily the Ashiko foot claws, because to move free and fast in all possible directions in order to adjust to the sword and opponent wielding it seems to be quite difficult.

With the Shuko or Tekagi (there are several styles, I`m only talking of the Togakurestyle ones like linked to before) it is different.
Normally you don`t stand on your hands, so you can really move the upper body and arms relatively fast - or at least in different directions - and catch a sword if you first of all adjust to the punch or strike.
Then after you`re feeling how the sword (the enemy) moves you have to act accordingly for not being cut after you`ve already "captured" the sword. Don`t forget that you can lock the sword a little by twisting the Shuko, while the blade is in between the claws of it.

Maybe you should not pay to much attention on this topic, because even the teacher (at least here in Germany) don`t work much with the Shuko. The Shuko is not really that spectacular, it`s just like using someone`s hand. With empty hands you would just go a little more towards the enemy and block his arms instead of his blade - this is more difficult and more advanced than using the Shuko.
Greetings from Berlin, Wilf

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#137396 - 02/27/05 09:39 PM Re: Ninja Climbing Claws (?)
laf7773 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 4064
Loc: Limbo
How exactly did you test the techniques?

I tried practical applications with them too. Instead of using a fellow bujinkan member with a bokken i used an iaido practitioner i work with and an iaito. You can believe what ever you want but the truth of the matter is that sword catching techniques are not practical. There is a big difference in training in a dojo environment with a practitioner delivering attacks you know or expect are coming vise training in a situation where you don't know how they will attack and you know the risk of injury is higher. There is also a big difference in how they attack. Are they going through the motions with moderate force or are they truly attacking you? If you train with the tekagi as realistically as you possible can you will soon realize they are more suited for grab/palm strike type techs than blade catching.

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#137397 - 02/28/05 10:58 AM Re: Ninja Climbing Claws (?)
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thanks for your question laf7773,

"catching techniques are not practical. ...they are more suited for grab/palm strike type techs than blade catching."

I didn`t try the techniques on a bokken, because it`s relatively thick, so we used an metalsword too (students please don`t try such things).
The thing is that the tekagi are used in a hidden way if possible and to let the opponent think that he`ll get you with his attack. As late as possible the make our move.
While catching the sword, one can attack with his second hand, forcing the enemy in the right direction (you don`t even have to touch him because he will react naturally)depending on the situation or move in onto his body to not let him draw back the sword for cutting ones hand who holds the blade.
Actually after one evaded the strike, the sword is taken and pulled away at the moment one has "prepared" the opponent to let loose.
One should not fight with the enemy but go together with him.

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