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#137077 - 12/13/04 10:02 AM Are 2 weapons better than 1?
Anonymous
Unregistered


This question came up during a thread between myself and another guy whose contention is was double nunchaku are impractical for combat because the movement is too complex, I disagree. I would mention the great Samurai Musashi, who killed many rival swordsmen using the tecnique of two sword combat (katana and wakizashi) against his single sword weilding opponents.

I'm trying to present the arguement to this point as impartially as I can, but that isn't possible as I am naturally biased to my own opinion.

I would like feedback.

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#137078 - 12/13/04 09:20 PM Re: Are 2 weapons better than 1?
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by ottorotciv:
This question came up during a thread between myself and another guy whose contention is was double nunchaku are impractical for combat because the movement is too complex, I disagree. I would mention the great Samurai Musashi, who killed many rival swordsmen using the tecnique of two sword combat (katana and wakizashi) against his single sword weilding opponents.

I'm trying to present the arguement to this point as impartially as I can, but that isn't possible as I am naturally biased to my own opinion.

I would like feedback.
[/QUOTE]

Two swords are a lot easier to handle than two nunchaku. Masashi doesn't relate here. As a Kung Fu practitioner, I can honestly tell you that two swords are better than one (if made for one hand, that is.) Flexible weapons, however, tend to tangle together easily when in pairs, especially in the panic of combat. There is nobody hitting your double spinning figure eight attack in a forms competetion. One slight tap could easily send them toward your face or each other. Besides, twin flexibles require your full attention to control. As far as I've been taught, your attention should be on your opponent, not your weapon. Like I said before, good for show, not for, fighting.

P.S. How are you going to use your chucks to block another weapon if you only have one hand for each? Hit the sword with a diagonal spin? You see my point. In a fight with deadly weapons, I'd never exchange all of my defenses for attacks. That's just plain logic.

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#137079 - 12/14/04 08:57 AM Re: Are 2 weapons better than 1?
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5823
Loc: USA
Otto

Just for the sake of accuracy.

Mushashi killed most of his men--and had his most famous duels with only one sword.

He seems not have used 2 swords very often if at all.

Also the nunchucks have much different handling chac than a sword would.

I'd say it all comes down to the guy/gal using them--how good are you?

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#137080 - 12/14/04 03:13 PM Re: Are 2 weapons better than 1?
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by cxt:

Otto

Just for the sake of accuracy.

Mushashi killed most of his men--and had his most famous duels with only one sword.

He seems not have used 2 swords very often if at all.

Also the nunchucks have much different handling chac than a sword would.

I'd say it all comes down to the guy/gal using them--how good are you?
[/QUOTE]

Hmm, it seems I hold the minority opinion, so be it. I'll respond to both posts. However, I would take you to task on this last post. Although it is true that not all of musashi's duels were conducted with the double sword tecnique, in his writings it his strong preference.

In terms of logic, there is a certain logic that says the best defense is a good offense. Blocking even with single nunchaku can be scetchy at best, especially against a sword or knife weilding foe, this is probably the nunchaku's one main weakness. Proper distance and theuse of stop hit's can be much better, and these can be employed as easily with one or two weapons.

Besides, overwhelming firepower has it's advantages too.

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#137081 - 12/15/04 12:16 PM Re: Are 2 weapons better than 1?
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by ottorotciv:
In terms of logic, there is a certain logic that says the best defense is a good offense. Blocking even with single nunchaku can be scetchy at best, especially against a sword or knife weilding foe, this is probably the nunchaku's one main weakness. Proper distance and theuse of stop hit's can be much better, and these can be employed as easily with one or two weapons.[/QUOTE]

An overwelming offense is wasted without the reach to use it. If I had a sword, you would NOT be able to get far enough into my circle to use your weapon without being cut in the process. Ask any of the kenjutsu guys and they'll say the same. To effectively stop an incoming weapon with nunchaku, you have to grip both andles and use the chain to block and redirect (then you might be able to get in close enough to hit them).

Think of it this way...Would you rather be the guy with a bat, or the one with two nunchaku in a fight? Do you think you could stop a bat with a spinning object? Do you honestly think you could hit them before they hit you (most men can swing a bat well over 100 mph)? Do you think if you did hit them, it would actually be enough to stop the hit, or even end the fight? I know the guy with the bat can end it in one easy swing. You're gonna have to work a lot harder for yours though.

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#137082 - 12/16/04 03:15 PM Re: Are 2 weapons better than 1?
Anonymous
Unregistered


To be honest, I'd prefer a single chuck against a baseball bat. The reach is almost the same but the nunchauku are harder to read. Also, I've seen nunchaku drop somebody with one hit. The baseball bat has too many blind spots.

To stick with the post, Two nunchaku are unrealistic in a fight if you have them both moving at the same time. I have done sparring with two nunchaku, but I almost always have one of them chambered.

Even with single nunchaku blocking is difficult, it's usually better to dodge or to hit first.

And yeah, SS is right, the sword weilded by a decent kenjutsu guy'll trump double or single nunchaku most, if not all of the time.

[This message has been edited by Xaith (edited 12-16-2004).]

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#137083 - 12/16/04 07:13 PM Re: Are 2 weapons better than 1?
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Xaith:
To be honest, I'd prefer a single chuck against a baseball bat. [/QUOTE]

Personally, I would too, though I am 6'3" and use oversized chucks (I have a nice pair that I added 20" handles to). The bat example was to illustrate the weakness in the double chuck's defense. You would need a lot of skill to stop a bat even with a single chuck (unless grossly oversized, lol), so two is right out.

Here is a better koan for this thread...Would you rather have one pair of nunchaku with 24" handles, or two with 12"?

I would take the 24 inchers, though it's probably because I practice with big chucks, so I know them well.

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#137084 - 12/17/04 08:15 PM Re: Are 2 weapons better than 1?
Anonymous
Unregistered


I've never seen chucks with 24" handles, much less used them. So on one hand, I'd be more used to the double 12" nunchaku. On the other hand, a deciding factor in many weapons encounters is reach, making the 24" chucks a good choice.

Out of curiosity, how well do those 24" chucks handle in comparison to 12" ones?

Seems like they'd be slow and kind of akward. Still, even though I am definitely not 6'3", I'm gonna have to try to make a pair myself. Did you use new handles altogether, or did you actually make extensions for preexisting chucks?

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#137085 - 12/18/04 09:48 AM Re: Are 2 weapons better than 1?
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by SifuSkyler:
An overwelming offense is wasted without the reach to use it. If I had a sword, you would NOT be able to get far enough into my circle to use your weapon without being cut in the process. Ask any of the kenjutsu guys and they'll say the same. To effectively stop an incoming weapon with nunchaku, you have to grip both andles and use the chain to block and redirect (then you might be able to get in close enough to hit them).

[/QUOTE]

To suppose that you could stop any powerful strike, even with chain nunchaku, with a sword or otherwise is ludicrous. The power generated by an overhand blow from an expert is too much for the structure created by whatever tension you're able to apply to the chain. That is not to mention the damage the chain will receive from the impact. Don't even get me started on trying to block a blow head on from a baseball bat.

Furthermore, blocking any head on blow from a bladed and blunt weapon is unwise. In my study of Aikido, the idea of irimi is essential, basically, that means closing the distance. If one is unable to apply this to nunchaku, you can't really be effective with them, single or not. You can't just insist that if you had a longer weapon you'd be more successful.

I agree with xaith, and all reasonable martial artists who have any idea what they are talking about should: the sword is mighty. A skilled swordsman will be victorious over a skilled nunchku practitioner 90 percent of the time (that's just a guesss, though). But for that nunchaku practitioner to be successful even 10 percent of the time, he must realize that blocking the edge of the blade is perhaps the worst thing he can do.

Here's a koan for this thread: "You know what they say about men who need to use oversize chucks...?"


[This message has been edited by ottorotciv (edited 12-18-2004).]

[This message has been edited by ottorotciv (edited 12-18-2004).]

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#137086 - 12/18/04 11:39 AM Re: Are 2 weapons better than 1?
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Xaith:
I've never seen chucks with 24" handles, much less used them. So on one hand, I'd be more used to the double 12" nunchaku. On the other hand, a deciding factor in many weapons encounters is reach, making the 24" chucks a good choice.

Out of curiosity, how well do those 24" chucks handle in comparison to 12" ones?

Seems like they'd be slow and kind of akward. Still, even though I am definitely not 6'3", I'm gonna have to try to make a pair myself. Did you use new handles altogether, or did you actually make extensions for preexisting chucks?
[/QUOTE]

I didn't extend them (that would probably make them weak). I added new handles. 20" hardwood from Home Depot. They're not slow in the least, but they do handle differently. Once you get used to them, you will find you can swing them out with blinding speed and pass them rather effortlessly. Once you get the plyometrics of it, they practically swing themselves. plus they are far more powerful.


[QUOTE]Originally posted by ottorotciv:
Here's a koan for this thread: "You know what they say about men who need to use oversize chucks...?"[/QUOTE]

They can break cinder blocks with their horizontal swing? Anyways, I don't "need" oversized chucks, I'm just strong enough to handle them, so why not? They have far more power, reach, and blocking surface than smaller ones. I think that qualifies them as a better weapon. I can use chucks with 6" handles for than matter, but why make things any harder on yourself?

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