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#136593 - 03/04/05 12:23 PM Does anyone feel that JKD has become.... more then it was intended
Anonymous
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Or less, depending on your point of view. It sems to me that all JKD gyms at present are nothing more then MMA gyms, they just happen to be carrying a different name.

From what I understand of JKD as it was originally intended, it was more a concept, and not a fighting style, form, art, or whatever you want to call it. But now there are so many people claiming "I do JKD," and nine times out of ten its the standardized Muay Tai, BJJ, and western boxing training you find at most gyms that train for NHB.

I mean, all things considered, how can there even be JKD SCHOOLS? I thought the concept was to explore, find what suits the individual, and continue to develop through more personal means (that doesn't mean not seeking instruction).

Has JKD become something that will just evolve and change with growing MA fads?

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#136594 - 03/04/05 02:20 PM Re: Does anyone feel that JKD has become.... more then it was intended
Anonymous
Unregistered


Nothing more than MMA gyms?

To me, the MMA philosophy is JKD.

I think this is exactly what Bruce intended. No styles, no BS, just exploration.

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#136595 - 03/04/05 02:30 PM Re: Does anyone feel that JKD has become.... more then it was intended
JKogas Offline
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Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
I completely agree with MattJ! Excellent post, right on the money.

-John

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#136596 - 03/04/05 02:42 PM Re: Does anyone feel that JKD has become.... more then it was intended
Anonymous
Unregistered


I was referring to most typical MMA places; the ones that bost the common mix of Brazilian JJ, western boxing, and Muay Tai. That still seems pretty standardized, despite the name

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#136597 - 03/04/05 03:10 PM Re: Does anyone feel that JKD has become.... more then it was intended
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hmmmm.....

Those are all respected arts representing three different ranges of unarmed combat.

If you are learning how to handle different ranges of combat, does it matter if the arts are popular? I mean, they still work, right?

Do you think less well known arts are neccessary?

I am afraid I do not understand your point.

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#136598 - 03/04/05 05:25 PM Re: Does anyone feel that JKD has become.... more then it was intended
Anonymous
Unregistered


I agree with you that all are respectable and effective (I train in two of the three actually) but don't you think it still offers a limited range? I mean all three are very freeform and alive, but at the same time, my question is, is that all there is to learn I suppose.

For instance, BJJ is good, but alot of schools don't teach leglocks. Say you had a MMA fighter who squared off against someone with some Sambo under his/her belt, don't you think it would be a tad of a disadvantadge?

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#136599 - 03/04/05 08:42 PM Re: Does anyone feel that JKD has become.... more then it was intended
Anonymous
Unregistered


Sure, they would be at a disadvantage. But I think it's the student's responsability to address any percieved weaknesses in his/her learning. That is JKD. Personal exploration, bro.

Could be as simple as asking the instructor, "Hey, can we do some more leg locks?" or it may mean finding another instructor that CAN help.

I think it's asking a lot of any single instructor or system to be able to defend against everything. They should be covering all the ranges as best they can, but that's really all you can ask.

You don't go to the family doctor for heart surgery, you see a specialist. Sometimes that is what it takes.

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#136600 - 03/05/05 01:33 AM Re: Does anyone feel that JKD has become.... more then it was intended
Anonymous
Unregistered


thats my point though. JKD as a concept is personal exploration of combat training, I don't think it was ever meant to be standardized in any way. The development of actual schools seems contradictory to the philosophy's nature

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#136601 - 03/05/05 06:14 AM Re: Does anyone feel that JKD has become.... more then it was intended
Anonymous
Unregistered


I agree with you. However, any responsible instructor will only act as a guide, to get you started on the path. If they are claiming to know it all, or encompass everything, I would be very suspicious.

This is the exact problem that Bruce had with the name JKD. But don't get hung up on the names or terms. JKD is where you find it.

I would not let the name of the style/school/instructor stop me whatsoever, IF I find what I need there.

[This message has been edited by MattJ (edited 03-05-2005).]

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#136602 - 03/05/05 08:49 AM Re: Does anyone feel that JKD has become.... more then it was intended
JKogas Offline
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Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Shug:
I agree with you that all are respectable and effective (I train in two of the three actually) but don't you think it still offers a limited range? I mean all three are very freeform and alive, but at the same time, my question is, is that all there is to learn I suppose. [/QUOTE]

The three ranges are merely “areas of the fight”. Why would they be limited? They would become limited only to the extent of one’s imagination during training. Every fight takes place in one or all of the three ranges. There are no limits, only limited thinking.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Shug:

For instance, BJJ is good, but alot of schools don't teach leglocks. Say you had a MMA fighter who squared off against someone with some Sambo under his/her belt, don't you think it would be a tad of a disadvantadge?
[/QUOTE]

Theoretically yes. Of course that just depends on the skill level of each of the fighters involved. If one fighter was more skilled than the other, it won’t matter if he knows leg locks or not.

I will say that in a fight between two equally skilled individuals, the fighter who knows leg locks will have a slight advantage to the one who doesn’t. A leg lock can end a fight really quickly – or it can get the guy attempting one into trouble really quickly! You have to really know what you’re doing before attempting a leg lock in a MMA event. You screw up and you will likely be punished.

As for BJJ guys not training leg locks, I think this is a valid point. But that’s with a lot of “old school” BJJ clubs. I’ve seen leg locks being trained a lot more in recent times. The thing is, many people prefer to work on the underlying delivery system instead of simply working on “attacks”. That’s a more conservative approach to training. That’s also why you don’t see the leg locks happening that much.

Of course every school and club is different. We definitely work leg attacks!


[QUOTE]Originally posted by MattJ:
Sure, they would be at a disadvantage. But I think it's the student's responsability to address any percieved weaknesses in his/her learning. That is JKD. Personal exploration, bro.
[/QUOTE]

AND, personal responsibility for his/her own growth – not that of the instructor, etc. JKD doesn’t exist within the school (although it certainly can), it really exists within the individual. Thus “it” will “go wherever he/she goes” and, to whatever school or gym that the person chooses.

JKD is not a product, but a process. That process is the individual’s responsibility. If someone isn’t getting adequate instruction, it is up to that person to go and FIND that instruction – even if that means training at another gym on occassion to receive supplemental training. Besides, it’a ALWAYS good to step out of one’s comfort zone from time to time….

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Shug:
thats my point though. JKD as a concept is personal exploration of combat training, I don't think it was ever meant to be standardized in any way. The development of actual schools seems contradictory to the philosophy's nature[/QUOTE]

That would be true if the “schools” had some sort of unchanging, un-evolving curriculum. I mean, if you go into a school and the instructors are saying things like: “This is a JKD technique”, or, “This is JKD grappling” etc…then you know to run in the other direction. Fast.

However, if the schools are actually training instead of “learning” (there’s a subtle difference between training and learning just as there is between teaching and coaching) and are actively working against resistance in all ranges, then JKD is alive and well.

And no, “resistance” doesn’t necessarily mean “fighting”.


[QUOTE]Originally posted by MattJ:
I agree with you. However, any responsible instructor will only act as a guide, to get you started on the path. If they are claiming to know it all, or encompass everything, I would be very suspicious.

This is the exact problem that Bruce had with the name JKD. But don't get hung up on the names or terms. JKD is where you find it.

I would not let the name of the style/school/instructor stop me whatsoever, IF I find what I need there.

[/QUOTE]

Wonderful post Matt!

-John

[This message has been edited by JKogas (edited 03-05-2005).]

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