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differences between shaolin and wing chun ?
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differences between shaolin and wing chun ?
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#136570 - 02/28/05 12:53 PM JKogas question for you?
Anonymous
Unregistered


first question: How long do u think you should practise a technique before training it in alive and what do you class as alive? second question: you said when someone asked you if it would be effective to put somethink over there eyes i think it was glasses they said to use you said know and you said the same when training kicking to the groin with a groin box on do you think this is not effective training or aliveness so to speak if so do u think BJJ is alive i dnt know if they do teach you to break arms in there or other joints but if they do how would you practise that in aliveness? last questions: do u only practise your martial arts in alive training do you train your tools on the punch bag and things like that? how would you pratise your BJJ alone? do you beleive in using any kicks if so which ones and y? thanx for your time JKogas.

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#136571 - 02/28/05 04:49 PM Re: JKogas question for you?
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
[QUOTE]Originally posted by SOL Martial Arts:
first question: How long do u think you should practise a technique before training it in alive and what do you class as alive?

Ideally you would spend about 10 minutes practicing a technique before training it alive. This ďpracticeĒ is what is referred to as the ďintroductionĒ stage, where the idea is to introduce a new technique. After about ten minutes, the basic mechanics should be sufficiently in place to begin training it in a more alive manner.

Aliveness simply means, not standing around flat-footed, not being robotic and actually trying to execute the technique against a partner who will be trying to defend against it. In other words, alive is: real timing, real motion and real energy/resistance. Itís really a simple concept and nothing new at all.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SOL Martial Arts:
second question: you said when someone asked you if it would be effective to put something over there eyes i think it was glasses they said to use you said know and you said the same when training kicking to the groin with a groin box [/QUOTE]

Itís a fine line. Striking to the eyes while someone is wearing goggles isnít a bad thing to do in practice. The problem with that approach is that you donít have realistic feedback to let you know if the technique worked or not. With an arm bar, I KNOW that the technique worked because I have real feedback from my partner (he taps out at the point of pain). With a technique like an arm bar, if you went BEYOND the point of leverage where your partner taps out, you would simply break a bone or dislocate a joint. What happens when you tap someoneís eye goggles? Nothing. Either that or, he pretends to be blinded. How realistic is that? Not very much in my opinion. That isnít to say that an eye jab doesnít have any place in oneís arsenal. But youíd better have something credible besides that. Youíd better have some real, discernable ability beyond ďpretendĒ techniques. Thatís all I was saying by my statements.

Striking to the eyes with safety goggles isnít completely alive because you donít actually go into the eyes. Such a technique would be minus the important element of ďenergyĒ in the aliveness equation. The energy isnít real because youíre stopping short of the eyes.

As far as striking the groin concerned, you can certainly make it more alive. Put on the groin cup if youíd like and then go all out. Try to hit the groin and if you can do so, you know your targeting is fine. But again, itís hard to get real feedback (even though it still hurts to be hit in the groin even WHEN wearing a cup). Would it make someone stop fightingÖthatís the question. Thereís no real way to know. Itís still good training though. You just have to be prepared to keep fighting. You have to have some real ability to fight that was not developed through pretend methods.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SOL Martial Arts:

on do you think this is not effective training or aliveness so to speak if so do u think BJJ is alive i dnt know if they do teach you to break arms in there or other joints but if they do how would you practise that in aliveness?
[/QUOTE]

Do they teach you to break arms and dislocate joints? Most certainly. Do you have to do so to obtain real feedback? Absolutely not. Why not? Because your partner taps out at the point of pain. Beyond that point, structural damage would occur. Thatís fairly easy to see I believe. Pain is the way the body has of telling you that damage is about to (or is) occur(ing). When you lock someoneís shoulder to the point of tightness and he is experiencing discomfort, you can rest assured that you could cause some pretty serious damage to the joint. Thatís good enough for me. Would I stop fighting if I saw that I had broken some guys arm or dislocated his shoulder? Probably notÖbut that would all depend on the situation.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SOL Martial Arts:

last questions: do u only practise your martial arts in alive training do you train your tools on the punch bag and things like that?
[/QUOTE]

Sure! I hit the heavy bag, lift weights, do cardio-vascular conditioning, etc. But those things donít actually teach me how to fight either. Those practices arenít fighting practices. They are methods of attribute development. They donít teach you HOW to fight, they just make your fighting better. Those donít HAVE to be trained alive.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SOL Martial Arts:

how would you pratise your BJJ alone?
[/QUOTE]

By stretching, doing strength training, and cardio, as I mentioned before. Are those things alive? No. Do they help teach me to fight? Nope. Do they make my fighting better? Yes.


[QUOTE]Originally posted by SOL Martial Arts:

do you beleive in using any kicks if so which ones and y?
[/QUOTE]

Sure, I believe in using kicks Ė particularly in training. You have to learn to defend against them so itís a good idea to put them into your training. The kicks I use (not that I am a great kicker) come from muay Thai and savate.

That said, I am NOT a big fan of using kicks in a fight (sport or street). Itís my opinion that itís a better idea to keep your feet on the ground. That way you donít end up on the bottom in a fight Ė a very real probability.


[QUOTE]Originally posted by SOL Martial Arts:

thanx for your time JKogas.
[/QUOTE]

My pleasure. Anytime.


-John

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#136572 - 03/01/05 12:44 AM Re: JKogas question for you?
Anonymous
Unregistered


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Striking to the eyes with safety goggles isnít completely alive because you donít actually go into the eyes.

But ur partner can give u the energy of actually bein hit in the eyes dont u think?. Like i was saying in BJJ you dont actually brake the guys arm so that wouldnt be classed as alive would it but i know wot your saying. You know you was saying your sparring partner taps when he feels pain in a fight do you ever think that you could of got use to that taping and if the man you want to beat up or kill taps you you might let go? do you know theres surton joints in your body the ones that i know are in your foot you feel the pain after they have been damaged? do you think that using shin pads are any good with your sparring partner when doing the stop hit to the shin because it dont really give the same results does it? i havent got a trainning partner my self would you know a good way to get a few people to train with? i was gonna join JKD with this man that trained with dan inosanto i cnt remember his name but he only teachs small groups and his full at the moment so i thought id make my own little group what do ypu think? thanx again for spending time to reply.

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#136573 - 03/01/05 04:58 AM Re: JKogas question for you?
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
[QUOTE]Originally posted by SOL Martial Arts:
But ur partner can give u the energy of actually bein hit in the eyes dont u think?.
[/QUOTE]

How would someone give you the "energy" of being hit in the eyes? Would they pretend to get hit and then, pretend to stumble around blinded so that you can "work your technique"? How would they give you any realistic energy from an eye jab that let you know that it worked?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SOL Martial Arts:
Like i was saying in BJJ you dont actually brake the guys arm so that wouldnt be classed as alive would it but i know wot your saying.
[/QUOTE]

Just because it doesn't break the arm doesn't mean that it's not alive. It's completely alive because I have taken it to the point where my partner feels pain. I know at that point that any further effort on my part with the armbar will cause structural damage.

However, I got into the armbar with the same real timing, the same real motion and against full resistance from my partner. That's the very definition of aliveness.

If you're going into your partners eyes to the point where they feel that same intensity of pain, then that eye jab or gouge would be alive. But that is kind of hard to do isn't it?


[QUOTE]Originally posted by SOL Martial Arts:
You know you was saying your sparring partner taps when he feels pain in a fight do you ever think that you could of got use to that taping and if the man you want to beat up or kill taps you you might let go?
[/QUOTE]

I understand your point but honestly (and please take no offense), it's a really ridiculous notion to think that I would let go of an armbar in fight if someone tapped. I wouldn't let go until I heard a pop. Even then I might continue to apply leverage just for good measure - just to make sure that I caused maximum damage.

I certainly wouldn't let go.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SOL Martial Arts:
do you know theres surton joints in your body the ones that i know are in your foot you feel the pain after they have been damaged?
[/QUOTE]

I don't think that I understand your question. Could you rephrase that please.

Pain or not, damage to a joint is damage to a joint. That causes a certain amount of immobility. That's one of the main things I'm looking for with joint locks.


[QUOTE]Originally posted by SOL Martial Arts:
do you think that using shin pads are any good with your sparring partner when doing the stop hit to the shin because it dont really give the same results does it?
[/QUOTE]

Nothing wrong with that. You still have the timing, motion and energy. Stop hits aren't meant to be fight enders. I don't see any problem with wearing shin guards. They help keep the shins from getting banged up and keep people coming back to train. That's the reason why people tap in practice instead of allowing their arms to get broken.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SOL Martial Arts:
i havent got a trainning partner my self would you know a good way to get a few people to train with?
[/QUOTE]

Put some flyers around and set up a website.


[QUOTE]Originally posted by SOL Martial Arts:
i was gonna join JKD with this man that trained with dan inosanto i cnt remember his name but he only teachs small groups and his full at the moment so i thought id make my own little group what do ypu think? thanx again for spending time to reply.

[/QUOTE]

I don't see any problem with that as long as you're attending training sessions and not just studying out of books and videos. You have to go out to seminars and visit gyms to get live, hands on instruction and coaching.

Then you take what you've learned back to your group and train. You can use videos and DVDs to supplement what you're doing. I don't see anything wrong with that again, as long as you're still getting that training. Become a student of someone, even if it's a long distance thing, it's better than nothing.

Good luck with all your endeavors.


-John

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#136574 - 03/01/05 07:05 AM Re: JKogas question for you?
Anonymous
Unregistered


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How would someone give you the "energy" of being hit in the eyes? Would they pretend to get hit and then, pretend to stumble around blinded so that you can "work your technique"? How would they give you any realistic energy from an eye jab that let you know that it worked?

maybe ur rite but thats the most aliveness u can get out of the eye jab dont you think?

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you're going into your partners eyes to the point where they feel that same intensity of pain, then that eye jab or gouge would be alive. But that is kind of hard to do isn't it?


LOL your rite unless uve got someone who dnt mind getting poked in the eye.


I understand your point but honestly (and please take no offense), it's a really ridiculous notion to think that I would let quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------go of an armbar in fight if someone tapped. I wouldn't let go until I heard a pop. Even then I might continue to apply leverage just for good measure - just to make sure that I caused maximum damage.

I certainly wouldn't let go.

LOL no offence taken i was just checking thats all.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by SOL Martial Arts:
do you know theres surton joints in your body the ones that i know are in your foot you feel the pain after they have been damaged?

quote--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think that I understand your question. Could you rephrase that please.

Pain or not, damage to a joint is damage to a joint. That causes a certain amount of immobility. That's one of the main things I'm looking for with joint locks.


I said to make sure you know i dont want you breaking your sparring partners foot if you dont know wer it is its connected to the ancle (spelling) theres tun of nerves going from ur ancle to ur leg and the way u break it is by twisting the foot clockwise. Im telling you this just to make sure that you dnt do it on your sparring partner because he or she wont feel pain untill its broke.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Put some flyers around and set up a website.


what flyers? do you know wer i can make my own website?

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#136575 - 03/01/05 07:16 AM Re: JKogas question for you?
Anonymous
Unregistered


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't see any problem with that as long as you're attending training sessions and not just studying out of books and videos. You have to go out to seminars and visit gyms to get live, hands on instruction and coaching.

Then you take what you've learned back to your group and train. You can use videos and DVDs to supplement what you're doing. I don't see anything wrong with that again, as long as you're still getting that training. Become a student of someone, even if it's a long distance thing, it's better than nothing.

Good luck with all your endeavors.


They dont do seminars where i live what are they anyway?. Do you think i should join a Martial Art style and please give answer why? and if so which one do you think would be effective to do? i think you dont really like wing chung?

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#136576 - 03/01/05 02:32 PM Re: JKogas question for you?
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
[QUOTE]Originally posted by SOL Martial Arts:
maybe ur rite but thats the most aliveness u can get out of the eye jab dont you think? [/QUOTE]
Are you saying that you think itís a good idea to pretend to be blinded when someone pretends to poke someone else in the eyes?
Do YOU think itís a good idea to give pretend feedback from a technique? Do you think that credible fighting skills can be developed through contrived practice? I donít. Your opponents in real fights certainly wonít be pretending. It would make sense that your training partners shouldnít either. After all, you ďplay (fight) like you practiceĒ. If youíre pretending to train, then youíll be pretending to fight when the time comes as well. Only your opponent WONíT be.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by SOL Martial Arts:

LOL your rite unless uve got someone who dnt mind getting poked in the eye.
[/QUOTE]

Yes, itís kind of difficult to find people who donít mind being poked in the eye with any regularity to create consistent feedback on the success or failure of impracticable technique.

Again, thereís nothing wrong with practicing the eye jab so long as itís just supplemental to your regular (credible/practicable) training.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SOL Martial Arts:

I said to make sure you know i dont want you breaking your sparring partners foot if you dont know wer it is its connected to the ancle (spelling) theres tun of nerves going from ur ancle to ur leg and the way u break it is by twisting the foot clockwise. Im telling you this just to make sure that you dnt do it on your sparring partner because he or she wont feel pain untill its broke.
[/QUOTE]

Thatís with the heel hook. Naturally we have to be a little more careful with such techniques. I agree, the distance between feeling pain and needing rehabilitation is quite short. In other words, it doesnít take long between the moment your partner feels pain and the subsequent ligament damage. Thatís a very good point. Heel hooks are very dangerous and have to be practiced carefully.


[QUOTE]Originally posted by SOL Martial Arts:

They dont do seminars where i live what are they anyway?. Do you think i should join a Martial Art style and please give answer why? and if so which one do you think would be effective to do? i think you dont really like wing chung?
[/QUOTE]

Seminars are just a gathering of martial artists where training occurs. If they donít have any where youíre at, it might be a good idea to join a martial arts school. Anything is better than nothing at all.

Youíre right, Iím not a big fan of wing chun. If thatís the only choice you have, itís better than nothing. Just try and get some sparring in if you can regardless of where you go to train.

If you cant, try and get a friends together and practice using whatever reference material that you can find. Do that and spar safely and often.

Cheers!

-John

[This message has been edited by JKogas (edited 03-01-2005).]

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#136577 - 03/02/05 03:42 PM Re: JKogas question for you?
Anonymous
Unregistered


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Are you saying that you think itís a good idea to pretend to be blinded when someone pretends to poke someone else in the eyes?
Do YOU think itís a good idea to give pretend feedback from a technique? Do you think that credible fighting skills can be developed through contrived practice? I donít. Your opponents in real fights certainly wonít be pretending. It would make sense that your training partners shouldnít either. After all, you ďplay (fight) like you practiceĒ. If youíre pretending to train, then youíll be pretending to fight when the time comes as well. Only your opponent WONíT be.


LOL theres alot of questions there ill get you back on this one. To be honest i dont know if it will help or not ive never tried it to juge it.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thatís with the heel hook. Naturally we have to be a little more careful with such techniques. I agree, the distance between feeling pain and needing rehabilitation is quite short. In other words, it doesnít take long between the moment your partner feels pain and the subsequent ligament damage. Thatís a very good point. Heel hooks are very dangerous and have to be practiced carefully.

Yep thats the one im on about the heel hook kick.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seminars are just a gathering of martial artists where training occurs. If they donít have any where youíre at, it might be a good idea to join a martial arts school. Anything is better than nothing at all.


yeh i might join a Martial art school i might do muay thai thats along the lines of what i am training in now not exatcly the same. I put some flyers out about an hour ago ill just have to wait for the results tomorrow.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Youíre right, Iím not a big fan of wing chun. If thatís the only choice you have, itís better than nothing. Just try and get some sparring in if you can regardless of where you go to train.


I know why you dnt like wing chun you think there range dont exist in a street fight ive heard paul vunak say that theres alot of people that dont know how to fight in that range thats why he likes it so much but bruce also said the same thing he still trained his wing chun alot of people think he dropped it completly but i heard dan inosanto say that he always trained it with him in in one of his videos.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you cant, try and get a friends together and practice using whatever reference material that you can find. Do that and spar safely and often.


like i said ive put some flyers out now ill have to wait for the results i said on the flyer i can only accept 5 people to train with so that i have enough time to train with them all.How often do you think 1 should spend on there sparring a day? i think your gonna say it depends how much uve progressed. i read one of your other posts saying:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, actually that is addressed at any of the Straight Blast Gyms.
The video you just saw was only about the concept of aliveness.

Going slowly through unfamiliar/new moves IS done. There is a progression to learning. It's called the "I METHOD". That's a different aspect.

Doing moves slowly for a few times, is called the "I"ntroduction phase of the I method. You do the move a few minutes to get mechanics down and then you begin adding progressive resistance and drilling it. Thats the second phase and it's more alive. That's called the "I"solation phase.

you say u do the moves slow a few times when your doing it slow do you hit air? do you move? and when you say a few times do you mean a few times a day or a few times and then dont do it ever again and move on adding progressive resistance? and what do you mean by drilling it out?


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Finally, all the isolated "pieces" are brough together as one whole via sparring, and that's the "I"ntregration phase - where everything is integrated into one's whole game.


by that do you mean when uve added enough resistance you only practise them tecniques in sparring?

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If done properly, you'll never have to go BACK to the introduction phase to "rehash" a move you've learned - you just tone down the intensity of the energy/resistance you're getting during drills.

what do you mean by you just tone down the intensity of the energy/resistance you're getting during drills.

Do you mean you dont use as much resistance against your sparring partner if so why?

thanx for spending so much time to reply again by the way i got your email from that site if you dont mind? have you got msn? what country do you live in and what city?

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#136578 - 03/02/05 08:20 PM Re: JKogas question for you?
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
[QUOTE]Originally posted by SOL Martial Arts:

I know why you dnt like wing chun you think there range dont exist in a street fight ive heard paul vunak say that theres alot of people that dont know how to fight in that range thats why he likes it so much
[/QUOTE]

The ďtrapping rangeĒ (the very range the wing chun bases itself around is an illusional range. It doesnít really exist as the wing chun practitioners do it. That range is called the ďrange of exchangesĒ. What happens when youíre nearly face to face but not quite in the clinch is, people throw massive amounts of punches at your head and shoot in to take you down! ďTrappingĒ as the wing chun guys do it DOES NOT WORK. Never WILL work, on any decent opponent. THAT is why I donít like wing chun. Itís whole ideology is based upon a false premise.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SOL Martial Arts:

but bruce also said the same thing he still trained his wing chun alot of people think he dropped it completly but i heard dan inosanto say that he always trained it with him in in one of his videos.
[/QUOTE]

Bruce DID drop the wing chun. He was moving further and further away from it. Too many people who wear around him at that time all say the same things for it not to be true.

And Bruce never really did even fight anyone. He was a movie star. Thatís something else to bear in mind.

What Dan Inosanto does is what Dan does. Most of the guys who came up under him now donít do any wing chun at all. Erik Paulson and Burton Richardson are two BIG NAME guys who have dropped most of the Jun Fan (wing chun) from their curriculums. Paulson as you might know was a pro fighter for a long time. Richardson is a Dog Brother. Thatís good enough for me.


[QUOTE]Originally posted by SOL Martial Arts:

like i said ive put some flyers out now ill have to wait for the results i said on the flyer i can only accept 5 people to train with so that i have enough time to train with them all.How often do you think 1 should spend on there sparring a day?
[/quote}

Oh, I would spar at least two or three rounds. You really donít have to spar more than three rounds (two or three minutes per round). And that really depends on your goals.

Donít forget that sparring is different than drilling. Make sure that youíre spending the majority of your time drilling. Save the sparring for last. Use the drilling to isolate and work on your SKILLS. Sparring is really more for the TESTING of those skills, rather than the development of them.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SOL Martial Arts:
you say u do the moves slow a few times when your doing it slow do you hit air? [/QUOTE]

NEVER hit the air. Every technique is either drilled against a focus pad or against a live partner (wearing gloves if itís striking training that Iím doing).

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SOL Martial Arts:

do you move? and when you say a few times do you mean a few times a day or a few times and then dont do it ever again and move on adding progressive resistance?
[/QUOTE]

In more cases than not, thereís movement. 99 percent of the time.

When I say to do a move a few times, thatís to get the basic mechanics down. Once those mechanics are learned, you should never really have to go back to the introduction phase. You should be able to practice the mechanics against a partner who is resisting your efforts Ė even if heís not resisting that much at all. The resistance is variable and progressive. Start out light and practice, then gradually add more energy to the drill.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SOL Martial Arts:

and what do you mean by drilling it out?
[/QUOTE]

I donít know! [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG] I canít remember using that expression.


[QUOTE]Originally posted by SOL Martial Arts:

by that do you mean when uve added enough resistance you only practise them tecniques in sparring?
[/QUOTE]

What it means is, after you done enough drilling, then you spar. Itís as simple as that. Now bear in mind that what you worked on during the drilling, may or may not come up during your sparring. Chances are though that if youíve drilled correctly and have developed some decent timing, your technique will come through during the sparring when you need it to.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SOL Martial Arts:


what do you mean by you just tone down the intensity of the energy/resistance you're getting during drills
[/QUOTE]


That just means that you donít always have to go real hard when youíre drilling. The most important thing to do is to develop your timing and sensitivity. Use variable intensity / progressive resistance during your drills to gradually acclimate yourself to the resistance to your technique.

By drilling using isolation, you can work a specific thing over and over again until youíve LEARNED to handle the resistance to what youíre trying to do. But let that resistance come on gradually. Take the time necessary to work the mechanics against low resistance in order to fully develop your technique. After you begin to feel confident, turn the energy up a notch and continue. Thatís how you get good.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SOL Martial Arts:

Do you mean you dont use as much resistance against your sparring partner if so why?
[/QUOTE]
Because youíre not trying to hurt your sparring partners. Thatís not to say that you shouldnít go hard on occasion! Thatís important too. However, you simply CANíT go hard all the time because youíll just suffer to many injuries Ė either to yourself or to your partners. If youíre injured, you canít train. If you canít train, youíre not getting better. Itís better to scale back the intensity and spend more time training, than to go really hard and then mess your body up to the point where youíre done and washed up after a year of training.

The guy that goes lighter, will eventually rack up INFINITELY more experience and will subsequently become better than the guy who went hard all the time and got banged up and blown out Ė even though it may take him more time to do so. Heíll HAVE that time because heís consistently training. And thatís the idea.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SOL Martial Arts:


thanx for spending so much time to reply again by the way i got your email from that site if you dont mind? have you got msn? what country do you live in and what city?
[/QUOTE]
No worries! Youíre welcome to email me anytime.

MSN?? Is that a messenger service? Iím not active on any of those. Just donít have the time.

I live in the United States (in the state of North Carolina). The City is Winston-Salem (that is where the main gym is run). I am also working to start a group in the city of Charlotte (North Carolina).

Cheers!


-John

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#136579 - 03/03/05 11:57 AM Re: JKogas question for you?
Anonymous
Unregistered


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The ďtrapping rangeĒ (the very range the wing chun bases itself around is an illusional range. It doesnít really exist as the wing chun practitioners do it. That
range is called the ďrange of exchangesĒ. What happens when youíre nearly face to face but not quite in the clinch is, people throw massive amounts of punches at your head and shoot in to take you down! ďTrappingĒ as the wing chun guys do it DOES NOT WORK. Never WILL work, on any decent opponent. THAT is why I donít like wing chun. Itís whole ideology is based upon a false premise.

fare enough. Im not saying this will work but i watched one of paul vunaks videos he was saying that the straight bast can stop someone from picking you up from ur legs i think the BJJ people call it the double leg take down any way he was saying that the straight blast can stop someone from doing that to you and he done it on a wrestler and it worked. I think personaly that one of the good things about wing chun is that it teaches you to occupy your opponents centre line i think that can be usefull when fighting any kind of fighter to be honest i think thats the only good thing about it but i think all fighters would be glad to be able to occupy there opponents centre line.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paulson as you might know was a pro fighter for a long time

no i dont know of him who is he?


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, I would spar at least two or three rounds. You really donít have to spar more than three rounds (two or three minutes per round). And that really depends on your goals.

why does it depend on my goal?

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Donít forget that sparring is different than drilling. Make sure that youíre spending the majority of your time drilling. Save the sparring for last. Use the drilling to isolate and work on your SKILLS. Sparring is really more for the TESTING of those skills, rather than the development of them.

So what exactly is drilling? i think i have a ruff idea.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(wearing gloves if itís striking training that Iím doing).


what do you mean by striking training are you just saying you wear gloves when your hitting sometink?

quote:
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In more cases than not, thereís movement. 99 percent of the time.


lol whats the 1 percent that aint movement?
and by move ment are you talking about on the balls of your feet and bouncing?


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When I say to do a move a few times, thatís to get the basic mechanics down. Once those mechanics are learned, you should never really have to go back to the introduction phase. You should be able to practice the mechanics against a partner who is resisting your efforts Ė even if heís not resisting that much at all. The resistance is variable and progressive. Start out light and practice, then gradually add more energy to the drill.

how long do you think it takes to learn the basic mechanics?. Can you give me a good example of reistance i know what it is but i cant think how i would do it in practice? what do you mean by energy?do you mean effort?


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What it means is, after you done enough drilling, then you spar. Itís as simple as that.

i dont think you understand that question that i asked you unless i phrased it wrong what i ment was once uve got the hang of drilling somethink out would you continue drilling it out even know you can do it near enough perfect? or would you stop drilling in it altogther and just spar with it instead of drilling with it?

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chances are though that if youíve drilled correctly and have developed some decent timing, your technique will come through during the sparring when you need it to.


i dont know how to drill how do i drill and how would i develop my timing through drilling?

quote:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- variable intensity / progressive resistance during your drills to gradually acclimate yourself to the resistance to your technique.


sorry i dont understand the last sentance and i dont know what acclimate means?


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No worries! Youíre welcome to email me anytime.
MSN?? Is that a messenger service? Iím not active on any of those. Just donít have the time.


thanx. MSN is a messenger service i only go on it now and again.

quote:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I live in the United States (in the state of North Carolina). The City is Winston-Salem (that is where the main gym is run). I am also working to start a group in the city of Charlotte (North Carolina).


so if i was ever to go to that part of the states would i have somewhere to stay and somewhere to train?. i live in the United Kindom myself. Im starting muay thai today im going in a hour. Do you know of any other good styles which i can do over here they dont do BJJ they do normal JJ do you think thats any good? they do thichi aswell i dont think thats any good what do you think? Do you think i should stay in thai boxing or do another style aswell while im doing thai boxing? thanx again.

Top
#136580 - 03/05/05 09:24 AM Re: JKogas question for you?
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
[QUOTE]Originally posted by SOL Martial Arts:

fare enough. Im not saying this will work but i watched one of paul vunaks videos he was saying that the straight bast can stop someone from picking you up from ur legs i think the BJJ people call it the double leg take down any way he was saying that the straight blast can stop someone from doing that to you and he done it on a wrestler and it worked.
[/QUOTE]
So, the straight blast is an unstoppable and unbeatable technique that anyone can do and stop any wrestler? Is that what youíre saying? You donít really believe that do you?
As for what Vunak says and what Vunak doesÖitís all really hearsay unless you hear it come straight out of his mouth donít you think?
Besides man, itís not about what VUNAK can do, itís about what YOU can do or what I can do. Focus on yourself. Train the straight blast really well and then test it. Try it against some really good wrestlers who donít mind mixing it up. See if you can stop the double leg. If you can and can do so a good percentage of the time with the straight blast, then it is everything that Vunak claims that it is.
HoweverÖÖ.just donít bet on it.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by SOL Martial Arts:

I think personaly that one of the good things about wing chun is that it teaches you to occupy your opponents centre line
[/QUOTE]
Wing chun is not the only art that is capable of allowing someone to occupy the centerline. The centerline is just a position relative to your opponent. You can do that in boxing. In wrestling, youíre taught to establish center control. With Brazilian jiu-jitsu, youíre always taught to establish positional control. Positional control is nothing new.
When is the last time you saw some wing chun guys do well in a MMA fight? Lets put it this way, youíd have to go back a long time just to find a wing chun guy Ė nevermind one that did well. You would NEVER find that. Thatís saying something donít you think?
[QUOTE]Originally posted by SOL Martial Arts:

i think that can be usefull when fighting any kind of fighter to be honest i think thats the only good thing about it but i think all fighters would be glad to be able to occupy there opponents centre line.
[/QUOTE]
Thatís cool man. Perhaps you can find something useful in wing chun. I personally donít. I dropped any and all wing chun practice ten years ago and havenít looked back.
If you enjoy wing chun, by all means practice it. Just test it again fully resisting opponents from other disciplines. Do yourself that favor.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by SOL Martial Arts:

no i dont know of him who is he?
[/QUOTE]
Paulson is a legend over here. Heís a long time JKD man under Inosanto. Heís just been around for a while and fought professionally in Japan and elsewhere. Nevermind.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by SOL Martial Arts:


why does it (sparring) depend on my goal(s)?
[/QUOTE]

Your goals as a martial artists are important. Depending on what those goals, you may need to adjust your training accordingly. If you want to be a competitive fighter, you will need to train harder. If you donít want to be such a fighter, you wonít need to train as hard. Itís just common sense.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SOL Martial Arts:


So what exactly is drilling? i think i have a ruff idea.

[/QUOTE]

Drilling is just isolating specific things that you do in fighting, in order to devote more time to their development. An example of drilling is, jab vs. jab. Thatís where you and a partner do nothing but spar the jab. No other punches are allowed. You can isolate and train almost EVERYTHING! Do so and youíll develop your skills much quicker than by sparring alone. Intelligent drilling is the key.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SOL Martial Arts:
what do you mean by striking training are you just saying you wear gloves when your hitting sometink?

[/QUOTE]

Yes, I almost always wear gloves when hitting anything. Itís to both protect your hands and to protect your partners. That is somewhat importantÖ.


[QUOTE]Originally posted by SOL Martial Arts:
lol whats the 1 percent that aint movement?[/QUOTE]

Thatís when someone is learning a particular movement or somethingÖbefore theyíve really gotten a good grasp of it. It also means weíre just standing around talking or something [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

Sometimes when working a particular high count combination we may stand still momentarily. I mean in order to strike, you have to have a base to strike out of. If youíve ever noticed, you canít really strike with any authority if youíre moving around and havenít established your footing. Thatís the 1 percent.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SOL Martial Arts:

and by movement are you talking about on the balls of your feet and bouncing?

[/QUOTE]

Weíre always moving on the balls of our feet, but weíre not really bouncing. This ainít TKD here, lol


[QUOTE]Originally posted by SOL Martial Arts: how long do you think it takes to learn the basic mechanics?
[/QUOTE]

That depends on the individual. How much time is someone willing to put in and how often they do their homework. How often do they visualize good technique when away from training, like when lying in bed at night? All those things factor in. Thereís no specific answer to that question.

Since all really functional techniques are basic, it really shouldnít take a VERY long time to develop some basic game. And truthfully, itís not the mechanics that often need to be mastered, itís the TIMING of those basic techniques that matters most. That requires alive drilling and sparring.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SOL Martial Arts:

Can you give me a good example of reistance i know what it is but i cant think how i would do it in practice? what do you mean by energy?do you mean effort?
/quote]

Resistance and energy are basically the same thing. How must are your partners resisting your efforts to hit them or put them into joint locks? Thatís resistance. How much energy are they using while resisting? Get the idea?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SOL Martial Arts:
what i ment was once uve got the hang of drilling somethink out would you continue drilling it out even know you can do it near enough perfect? or would you stop drilling in it altogther and just spar with it instead of drilling with it?
[/QUOTE]

I would always drill the fundamentals. Thatís because fundamentals are easy, but require TIMING. Timing is something you can lose if you donít drill it constantly. ALL techniques require a good sense of timing to execute. The easier a technique is to execute, the easier it will be to develop that timing. But it must always be drilled because that way, you can isolate it better and get more repetitions in. You canít always work repetitions when sparring because the scenarios where a specific technique becomes available doesnít always come up. Thatís why drilling is so important. And, thatís where your timing will come from.

Now with that said, if I have developed a good sense of timing with my technique, I should be able to easily execute it during sparring Ė which is important as well. Sparring though, serves a different purpose than does drilling. Itís mainly to ďtestĒ what you have learned. However, sparring should have a goal and purpose and not be just for the chance to beat up your partners. It seems that a lot of people havenít realized that point.

In short, I would NEVER stop drilling something. Drilling (alive drilling) is more important perhaps than even sparring.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SOL Martial Arts:
i dont know how to drill how do i drill and how would i develop my timing through drilling?
[/QUOTE]

Drilling is how you practice your technique. What you do is, isolate the situation where a specific technique occurs. Then you practice it over and over with a partner who offers increasing amounts of resistance to what youíre trying to do. Itís important that he resists your efforts to work the technique progressively over the duration of your practice. But donít let the drill turn into a sparring session. Thatís the mistake that many inexperienced people do.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SOL Martial Arts:
sorry i dont understand the last sentance and i dont know what acclimate means?

[/QUOTE]

Acclimate means to ďget used to somethingĒ. To become accustomed to a thing or situation.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SOL Martial Arts:
so if i was ever to go to that part of the states would i have somewhere to stay and somewhere to train?
[/QUOTE]

Well, you would definitely have somewhere to train! I wouldnít likely be able to give you room and board at the moment. But I would certainly welcome you and do everything I could to help. Iíve already had several guests from overseas and itís always a great experience!


[QUOTE]Originally posted by SOL Martial Arts:

i live in the United Kindom myself. Im starting muay thai today im going in a hour. Do you know of any other good styles which i can do over here they dont do BJJ they do normal JJ do you think thats any good? they do thichi aswell i dont think thats any good what do you think? Do you think i should stay in thai boxing or do another style aswell while im doing thai boxing? thanx again.
[/QUOTE]

Thai boxing is great. Pay extra attention to the development of your punching. Youíll do great Iím sure.

Stay in touch.


-John

Top
#136581 - 03/05/05 10:05 AM Re: JKogas question for you?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Good Lord, JKogas.

You deserve some kind of award for doing this.

Make sure you thank the man, SOL!

Top
#136582 - 03/05/05 12:40 PM Re: JKogas question for you?
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
[QUOTE]Originally posted by MattJ:
Good Lord, JKogas.

You deserve some kind of award for doing this.

Make sure you thank the man, SOL!
[/QUOTE]

Just trying to do my part, lol. Trying to be a part of the solution instead of being part of the problem I guess [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif[/IMG]

Thanks

-John

Top
#136583 - 03/05/05 03:16 PM Re: JKogas question for you?
Anonymous
Unregistered


MattJ i know he does JKogas is a good man and i thank him alot for his information at the moment i look up to him JKogas knows alot of useful information. He didnt answer my last questions though but it dont matter i respect him for answering all of those questions i asked him Thanx again JKogas.

Top
#136584 - 03/05/05 04:49 PM Re: JKogas question for you?
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
I'm sorry SOL - I thought I answered your question. Please repost that specific question and I'll do my best to answer it.


-John

Top
#136585 - 03/06/05 01:31 PM Re: JKogas question for you?
Anonymous
Unregistered


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------So, the straight blast is an unstoppable and unbeatable technique that anyone can do and stop any wrestler? Is that what youíre saying? You donít really believe that do you?


I never said it can stop any wrestler and i never said it is unstoppable i believe theres a way around anythink and every think. I said he said it can stop the double leg take down and im about %60 sure that it can but i would have to practice it to know for sure.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------As for what Vunak says and what Vunak doesÖitís all really hearsay unless you hear it come straight out of his mouth donít you think?

yep.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Besides man, itís not about what VUNAK can do, itís about what YOU can do or what I can do.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Besides man, itís not about what VUNAK can do, itís about what YOU can do or what I can do. Focus on yourself.

thats obviously true but i was just sayin what i heard to see if you think the straight blast is any good.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Try it against some really good wrestlers who donít mind mixing it up.


I would if i knew any lol.


When is the last time you saw some wing chun guys do well in a MMA fight?

lol i watched only one of them fights a wing chun guy against a wrestler obviously the wrestler won but JKogas your missing my point im not gonna become a wing chun man am i im gonna take the usefull stuff out even know i aint tried taking the useful stuff out of any think yet i wouldnt know how to blend it if that is what ur supposto do is blend it?

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Lets put it this way, youíd have to go back a long time just to find a wing chun guy Ė nevermind one that did well. You would NEVER find that. Thatís saying something donít you think?


lol theres a wing chung guy that teaches about 30mins from where i live. what are you saying none of them have done well?

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thatís cool man. Perhaps you can find something useful in wing chun. I personally donít. I dropped any and all wing chun practice ten years ago and havenít looked back.

WOW ten years ago how long was you in it and how long have you been doing martial arts for?


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------If you enjoy wing chun, by all means practice it. Just test it again fully resisting opponents from other disciplines. Do yourself that favor.


JKogas yer ok but practice it in progressive resistance?


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Paulson is a legend over here. Heís a long time JKD man under Inosanto. Heís just been around for a while and fought professionally in Japan and elsewhere. Nevermind.

is he a teacher now? do you think his better than dan?

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Your goals as a martial artists are important. Depending on what those goals, you may need to adjust your training accordingly. If you want to be a competitive fighter, you will need to train harder. If you donít want to be such a fighter, you wonít need to train as hard. Itís just common sense.

well i do train hard anyway.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Drilling is just isolating specific things that you do in fighting, in order to devote more time to their development. An example of drilling is, jab vs. jab.

so how long would u spend on each thing u work about 20 minutes? would u decrease ther time u spend on it? would u only drill individual tools? so u wouldnt practice jab, cross or jab, cross, hook?

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thatís where you and a partner do nothing but spar the jab. No other punches are allowed.


so u wouldnt practice separate things for example u practice just the jab and i practice the stop hit to the shin? or u practice the jab and i only practice the hook?

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It also means weíre just standing around talking or something.

lol i hope u dont mean in training time [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/frown.gif[/IMG]

quote:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I mean in order to strike, you have to have a base to strike out of. If youíve ever noticed

yeh ive noticed that. Ive also noticed that u can bounce and rush in while bouncing.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Weíre always moving on the balls of our feet, but weíre not really bouncing. This ainít TKD here, lol

LOL what are you trying to say..... so you dont bounce around like bruce does when fighting chuck norris in the way of the dragon in america its called return of the dragon i dont know why theres 2 different names but saying return of the dragon is just like saying entre the dragon 2 by that i mean the follow up to entre the dragon. If ur not really bouncing on the balls of ur feet what are you doing? and how are you moving?

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That depends on the individual. How much time is someone willing to put in and how often they do their homework

well i train my tools on the bag 2 hours a day plus i lift weights 3 times a week and go jogging 6 days a weak and 3 hours on the rest of my training. i do my homework every day and plus im learning from you so that could be classed as homework to.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How often do they visualize good technique when away from training, like when lying in bed at night?

Lol i didnt think many people do that i thought i was one of the rear people that do that i guess im not. i visualize a fight going on with me and some one else sometimes someone that fights exactly like me some times a mad man all different types of people and i gotta make sure i defeat them before i go sleep lol.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Resistance and energy are basically the same thing. How must are your partners resisting your efforts to hit them or put them into joint locks? Thatís resistance. How much energy are they using while resisting? Get the idea?

yeh i get the idea thanx for that.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Drilling is how you practice your technique. What you do is, isolate the situation where a specific technique occurs. Then you practice it over and over with a partner who offers increasing amounts of resistance to what youíre trying to do. Itís important that he resists your efforts to work the technique progressively over the duration of your practice. But donít let the drill turn into a sparring session. Thatís the mistake that many inexperienced people do.


lol me and my brother was doing somethink that before and it turned a bit into a sparring session but that was not my fault it was my brothers as he is a beginer and only trains when i go to his house.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Well, you would definitely have somewhere to train! I wouldnít likely be able to give you room and board at the moment. But I would certainly welcome you and do everything I could to help. Iíve already had several guests from overseas and itís always a great experience!


ok thanx for that would u be able to find me some where to stay if i ever did come like a motel or somethink and how much would it cost? and how much are the gyms with good equipment to train in?

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thai boxing is great. Pay extra attention to the development of your punching. Youíll do great Iím sure.

im the fittest in that thai boxing place. the man that teaches said he loves my punchs and kicks ive got alot of speed and power he said and my partner said the same. i know i was hitting the pads with alot more speed and power than most of them probley all of them they was all watching me and one asked me have i done this before lol.

do u think its a good idea to go into 2 styles or 3 or 4 styles at once? or is it best to stay in muay thai for a few years?

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