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#136170 - 01/18/05 10:52 PM How many times must you perform a technique before its mastered?
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
Anyone got the answer. Im looking for anything thats grounded in science, like a study on muscle memory or something of that nature. Ive heard all the MA answers. 1000 times. 3000 times. 10000 times. I was wondering if anyone knew the truth.

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#136171 - 01/19/05 12:10 PM Re: How many times must you perform a technique before its mastered?
Anonymous
Unregistered


around 30 to 40 times if you cant do it now then while you may be able to do it after 1000 times more then likely it will fail. Thats my point of view anyway.

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#136172 - 01/19/05 12:37 PM Re: How many times must you perform a technique before its mastered?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Of course, depends on the student blah blah blah.....

Jim Mather (old geezers like myself may remember him from the show "That's Incredible!", where he used to catch/break arrows shot at him on TV!) has said that it takes something on the order of 100 reps just to acheive "muscle memory", probably around 10,000 to become very proficient and 50,000+ to become world class.

This was from an article in Black Belt magazine from the mid 80's. I may not be totally accurate with the numbers, but it was around there.

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#136173 - 01/19/05 02:22 PM Re: How many times must you perform a technique before its mastered?
Christiancadet Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 06/08/04
Posts: 553
In wrestling we say you have to doa a move 1000 times to know what it is, to master something you'll have to do it until it works every time on everybody you try it on. JMVHO

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#136174 - 01/19/05 02:22 PM Re: How many times must you perform a technique before its mastered?
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
Seems rather excessive. %50000 times. Thats a whole lot of training.

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#136175 - 01/19/05 04:13 PM Re: How many times must you perform a technique before its mastered?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Although in my own JKD training, I use to practice a thousand "strikes" a day, I offer you, perhaps, a Zen MA answer: one.

To create a single muscle memory in an action would probably be a weakness. No actual combat could be guaranteed to require that single action.

Thus, you may practice many thousands of strikes a day, but each strike should not be like the previous one, nor the next.

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#136176 - 01/19/05 05:16 PM Re: How many times must you perform a technique before its mastered?
Anonymous
Unregistered


I did say "world class".....meaning in the very top echelon of competition.

Oddly enough, I am trying to remember if he said 50,000 or 250,000 reps for world class.

It was a lot. Am I the only one who knows who Jim Mather is?

15-20 reps a day, 300 days a year for 10 years is roughly 50,000. Practice more, get there faster. I personally noted that I was much better after 10 years than I was when I started! [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

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#136177 - 01/19/05 05:58 PM Re: How many times must you perform a technique before its mastered?
Anonymous
Unregistered


''Jim Mather (old geezers like myself may remember him from the show "That's Incredible!", where he used to catch/break arrows shot at him on TV!) has said that it takes something on the order of 100 reps just to acheive "muscle memory", probably around 10,000 to become very proficient and 50,000+ to become world class.''

I have a problem using the word 'master' when in the context of the martial arts. Since we as human beings are capable of mistakes at anytime, I don't believe one can truely master any techique(s).
Case in point: I had seen some video footage some time ago, of a Japanese 'master' cutting
a melon in half on a man's throat with a sword. This 'master' appeared to be in his mid fifties, and according to the narrator, had done this stunt a thousand times. The end result of the demo led to the man being taken to the hospital (I presume), as his throat had been severed.
Any time a human being is part of the equation, there is always risk of failure.
I know this doesn't answer Chen's question, but I felt it was relevant to the question of mastery.

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#136178 - 01/20/05 04:15 AM Re: How many times must you perform a technique before its mastered?
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chen Zen:
Anyone got the answer. Im looking for anything thats grounded in science, like a study on muscle memory or something of that nature. Ive heard all the MA answers. 1000 times. 3000 times. 10000 times. I was wondering if anyone knew the truth.[/QUOTE]

i've often wondered that myself. i know that inorder for me to get to champion speed playing pool i had to sink in the neighborhood of at least 1 million balls. thast just good enough to be pro not beat one. i would say it's more of a matter of how long it takes to replace a current muscle reponse with a new one. your probably looking at about two weeks to a month depending on training to replace the response with a new one. i googled looking for a response and fell asleep with all the fascinating insights they had to share. i didnt find much other than it takes time. but from previos personal experience of having looked into this myself a few years back. to truely master a new set of skills or techniques to the point where you own them. your honestly looking at years i'd say around a million would be a good place to start aiming. good luck!

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#136179 - 01/21/05 12:24 PM Re: How many times must you perform a technique before its mastered?
MAGon Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 1737
Loc: Miami, Fl.
I remember reading an article some yrs. ago which dealt with handgun fast draw from the holster. The author mentioned a study which stated that proficiency came after 1,000 reps.
Since I can't for the life of me remember the specifics (Title, author, date, etc.), I won't argue if someone calls me a liar!!!

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