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differences between shaolin and wing chun ?
by liangxiaoyu123
04/28/20 01:05 AM
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differences between shaolin and wing chun ?
by liangxiaoyu123
04/28/20 01:05 AM
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#136115 - 02/15/05 07:19 PM Re: misconception about JKD

Thank you...


#136116 - 04/20/05 09:20 PM Re: misconception about JKD

I do agree somewhat with the statements here but disagree with some too, alot of people fall into the if your doing this your doing jkd, if your doing that your doing jkd. Plain and simple jkd was bruce's expression of the martial arts his way of fighting, the reason he said jkd was fluid was because jkd is not a kata based system where you must learn the kata a certain way , the footwork is what he called " alive footwork" like a boxer and fencer not like a karate or kung fu practicioner where the norm was strong static stances. But yes jkd did and does have a curriculum of techniques you must learn in order to progress classically the old schools had about 13 techniques they could teach , then bruce added 31 dif grappling sequences and this is quoted from Gary Hartsell. The meaning was you first learn the way then you would be free to utelize the tools in a free form way but bruce was in no way impliing that jkd was JUST a philosophy or he would have never established schools The curriculum among other things was tool development( punching, kicking) trapping drills/energy drills strategy and the sparring.Fisrt learn the way then you will be free to utilize it as you see fit.To make it a personal expression of yourself.

#136117 - 04/21/05 05:07 AM Re: misconception about JKD

[QUOTE]Originally posted by FCFS:
remember folks, in order for bruce to be a better fighter, flexible fighter, he had to cross train. get away from the tradition of wing chung, an learn how to box, grapple, and i think at that time the world of martial arts was shocked at his new found belief.[/QUOTE]

This is only because Bruce Lee failed to finish his Wing Chun learning with Wong Shun Leung (who repeatedly said that Lee was nothing special among his students). Wing Chun is full of locks, take-downs and grapple techniques because Wing Chun is a concept not a take what is useful to you and discard what is not. Lee's philosophy was simply new to US martial arts, but it is not anything different to what Wing Chun is about - nor are his metaphors about being like water, these are metaphors that can be found in Wing Chun teachings and Chinese fighting philosophies that are hundreds of years old...Lee simply came across them himself because he didn't finish his learning from Wong Shun Leung (arguably the best known fighter). Bruce Lee did distill many concepts into short "sayings", and they have proved useful in communicating the concepts to a new audience.

It is all very well to say "be free and formless", but you can only become so after you have trained hard and conditioned your body to automatically produce the "perfect" shapes. Once you can say "i've got it", then you can discard it and become free, loose, formless. There is no point in trying to be formless and "breaking the rules", if you have failed to learn the rules, understand the concepts, and condition the body to make most efficient use of your personal body mechanics. The forms and drills in Wing Chun are not to be use in fighting, they are to condition the body and to learn how the body should move - Chi Sao is to try to teach you to maintain your structure and lack of tension when you are under stress.

What you describe about JKD is not much different to what I have seen people discuss here already. JKD was Bruce Lee's interpretation of fighting, stemming from his partial understanding of Wing Chun is not some revelation, except that it was new to the stylistic arts in the US. If you look at the core of his concepts, they are all Wing Chun based - punch technique, use of hips, elbow positions, non-telegraphic attacks, economy of motion, his stance etc. He incorporated individual concepts from other fighting styles that he personally found useful - but this is a Wing Chun concept! Wong Shun Leung was doing this well before Bruce Lee. You do not ever "finish" Wing Chun, because the concept means you should be continuously looking to improve yourself by searching for the weaknesses and strengths in your own fighting and those of others.

Wong Shun Leung famously said - "The best self defence is to be invisible. If you cannot be, learn Wing Chun"

#136118 - 04/25/05 05:07 AM Re: misconception about JKD

i agree with you partially someotherguy, he did not finish his wing chun training, he only learned the first two forms not BIU GEE but alot of the concepts he learned were from other arts as well not just wing chun, the non telegraphic attack he learned from western fencing(epee) and his stance was a modified boxing/fencing stance, and the claim that he was nothing special among his students master William Cheung and Yip Man himself have said that Bruce was an exceptional student dilligent and a quick learner, also it is a well known fact that master Leung is known for exagurating things and twisting stories to his advantage.

#136119 - 04/25/05 11:47 AM Re: misconception about JKD

non-telegraphic attack is a fundamental principle of Wing Chun, even if it is shared with numerous sword arts. From the videos of fights I have seen Bruce Lee in, he uses a stance seen in Wing Chun, although I do know that he also employed fencing concepts. But including aspects of other arts that are of benefit, is once again a Wing Chun concept (even if Lee was never communicated this during his training).

I also doubt that Leung would lie, and intentionally play down his opinion of Bruce Lee, when they had quite a close relationship. He didn't say Bruce Lee was not good, just that he wasn't a stand-out student of his.

[This message has been edited by someotherguy (edited 04-25-2005).]

#136120 - 04/25/05 03:03 PM Re: misconception about JKD

who is master Leung ?

#136121 - 04/26/05 02:02 AM Re: misconception about JKD

i'm not so into the whole master idea. because i believe that anything that's going to work in a real fight you can learn in a very small amount of time and be effective to. i believe that for the most part that there's only a few punches and kicks that's going to work well in a real fight. and also i think you should be very mobile and stepping backwards i've learned by watching fight's is for the most part a bad idea because as soon as you step back the other fighter charges in on you or they punch or kick right when you step so that you fall very easy. a bit off topic but sorry. but yeah i think jkd is effective. i think you can use it to apply to any style. for your fighting to be effective i agree with bruce lee that it should be very simple and mobile also i agree with everything bruce had to say on how to survive a fight.

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