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#136095 - 01/10/05 01:26 PM misconception about JKD
Anonymous
Unregistered


i'm new to this site and allready have seen the myths an logic of JKD. how people think thats what makes us human. is it not bruces way of soming up combat his belief. here a qoute out of bruce lees book

Jeet Kune Do bruce lee's commentaries on the martial way.......edited by john little

On what is the "best" martial art.
there is no such thing as an effective segment of a totality. by that i mean that i personally do not believe in the word style. why because, unless ther are human beings with three arms and four legs,unless we have another group of beings on earth that are structurly different from us, there can be no different style of fighting. why is that? because we have two hands and two legs. now the unfortunate thing is that there's boxing, which uses hands, and judo, which uses throwing, i'm not putting them down, mind you-but because of styles, people are separated. they are not united together because styles became law. the original founder of the style started out with hypothesis. but now it has become the gospel truth, and people who go into that become the product of it. it dosn't matter how you are, who you are, how you are structured, how you are biult, or how you ared made...it doesn't seem to matter. you just go in there and become that product. and that to me, is not right.

this book has opend my eyes and has made me a better fighter and teacher.

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#136096 - 01/11/05 02:04 AM Re: misconception about JKD
Anonymous
Unregistered


You're leaving out a lot of the philosophy there that talks about it not being a style.

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#136097 - 01/11/05 12:49 PM Re: misconception about JKD
Anonymous
Unregistered


thats just one quote out of hundreds. what lees trying to say is don't get wrapt up in the style, theres more to martial arts than just that one style. obviously you have to start somewhere, i did, here's another few quotes, of bruce lee's remember this is only his views its up to you if you want to believe it or not..

The highest state is no form
I think the highest state of martial art, in application, must have no absolute form, and, to tackle pattern A with patern B may not be absolutly correct. i feel that martial art should not be limited in in a circle. that will produce in the students a wrong idea, thinkning that a certain pattern will achieve the same result in fighting as in practice.


Forms and katas are not the answer
I think simply to practice gung fu forms and karate katas is not a good way. moreover, it wastes time and does not match the actual (fighting) situation. some people are tall, some are short, some are stout, some are slim, there are various kinds of people. if all of them learn the same boxing (i.e. martial art) form, then who does it fit.


Jeet Kune Do is only a name. the most important thing is to avoid having bias in the training. although th principle of boxing is important, practicly is even more important

True observation begins when one is devoid of set patterns.

Freedom of expression occurs when one is beyond system.

A style is classified responce to one's chosen inclination.

In order to cope with what is, one must have the awareness and flexibility of teh styleless style. when i say "styleless style," i mean a style that has the totality without partiality; in short, it is a circle without circumference where every conceivable line in included

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#136098 - 01/12/05 12:02 PM Re: misconception about JKD
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by FCFS:
thats just one quote out of hundreds. what lees trying to say is don't get wrapt up in the style, theres more to martial arts than just that one style. obviously you have to start somewhere, i did, here's another few quotes, of bruce lee's remember this is only his views its up to you if you want to believe it or not..

The highest state is no form
I think the highest state of martial art, in application, must have no absolute form, and, to tackle pattern A with patern B may not be absolutly correct. i feel that martial art should not be limited in in a circle. that will produce in the students a wrong idea, thinkning that a certain pattern will achieve the same result in fighting as in practice.


Forms and katas are not the answer
I think simply to practice gung fu forms and karate katas is not a good way. moreover, it wastes time and does not match the actual (fighting) situation. some people are tall, some are short, some are stout, some are slim, there are various kinds of people. if all of them learn the same boxing (i.e. martial art) form, then who does it fit.


Jeet Kune Do is only a name. the most important thing is to avoid having bias in the training. although th principle of boxing is important, practicly is even more important

True observation begins when one is devoid of set patterns.

Freedom of expression occurs when one is beyond system.

A style is classified responce to one's chosen inclination.

In order to cope with what is, one must have the awareness and flexibility of teh styleless style. when i say "styleless style," i mean a style that has the totality without partiality; in short, it is a circle without circumference where every conceivable line in included

[/QUOTE]

If I am interperting what you and Bruce are stating is that style is a weakness more than a strength. Style, by Bruce's words, is a "crystallization". Maybe this is stupid but Bruce always seemed to look at martial art as a state of matter (solid, liquid, and gas), he considers styles and forms to be a solid while explains Jeet Kune Do to simulate the persona of water, "when you put water in a cup it becomes the cup," . Bruce focused on flexibility and expression of self instead of changing self to become the style.

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#136099 - 01/12/05 12:54 PM Re: misconception about JKD
Anonymous
Unregistered


what i think bruce bruce was tring to say is don't be narrow minded and thing karate is the way teakwondo is the way or kung fu is the way. don't give u your style but work on the weaknes your style by that i mean if all your life you trained with your feet you go in the boxing ring your phucked you'll loose or fight on the ground. so then train your weakness so some boxing or some wrestling/BJJ.......thats what bruce lee did........and look whats evolved the no holds bared compitions.... who was efective in the first ufc? royce gracie.

all these masters of there art where loosing to this little bjj man then people started breaking away from there style to learn other styles, they worked on their weakness. you see kimo did prety well aginst royce because learned how to do the basic grappling he learned a few little tricks for the ground, because he knew thats where royce was gonna take him. i'll tell ya if kimo didn't have that pony tail, it could of been a diffrent scenario..............

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#136100 - 01/12/05 08:22 PM Re: misconception about JKD
Anonymous
Unregistered


[QUOTE]Originally posted by FCFS:
what i think bruce bruce was tring to say is don't be narrow minded and thing karate is the way teakwondo is the way or kung fu is the way. don't give u your style but work on the weaknes your style by that i mean if all your life you trained with your feet you go in the boxing ring your phucked you'll loose or fight on the ground. so then train your weakness so some boxing or some wrestling/BJJ.......thats what bruce lee did........and look whats evolved the no holds bared compitions.... who was efective in the first ufc? royce gracie.

all these masters of there art where loosing to this little bjj man then people started breaking away from there style to learn other styles, they worked on their weakness. you see kimo did prety well aginst royce because learned how to do the basic grappling he learned a few little tricks for the ground, because he knew thats where royce was gonna take him. i'll tell ya if kimo didn't have that pony tail, it could of been a diffrent scenario..............
[/QUOTE]

I understand what you are saying, but learning different styles or forms doesn't really make you flexible, probably prepared to a certain degree but neccessarily flexible. We know Bruce did give a care about Japanese Styles, Chinese Styles, etc. but we do know that their are drastic differences and we also know that they are not like JKD, because it can't be personnalized. everyone who does Karate are going to look the same when they perform and that goes especially for all the kung fu type styles, so learning Judo, Karate, and Aikido with a sprinkle of Tai Chi and Muay Thai for power, chi, grapple, and speed doesn't neccessarily make you flexible just prepared for fighters who have studied those arts. Now for instance a fighter of Pi Quan comes at this guy or kempo, he's screwed becaused the scenerios he has learned don't apply to the movements of these martial artist. I didn't see the fight that you mentioned but I am familiar with UFC and my opinion is if you want to survive it learn Muay Thai, Judo, and Tai Chi (explosive power, grapple, and control of ones energy), because most of the fighters take Muay Thai/Kickboxing or some grapple art. JKD on the other hand is different because it is flexible and what i mean by flexible is that everyone who does JKD are going to have subtle differences. I know a spin kick will look like a spin kick and a backfist will look like a backfist, but their are no scenerios just training. Their JKD artist who are just awesome with the "modified" Wing Chun stuff and their are people like me who take the "Intercepting Fist" literally by not wasting time playing hand games and just attacking and counterattacking, you may not call it JKD but the thing is that one must have an open mind when dealing with JKD, because if I had my way I would say to the people who put heavy emphasis on Wing Chun that they are crystallizing JKD but I have to keep an open mind. That is what I think Bruce was trying to show the world an art that is like a virus, it never dies but never stays the same either. I hope that didn't sound to confusing.

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#136101 - 01/13/05 12:11 AM Re: misconception about JKD
Anonymous
Unregistered


i truly understand bro, martial art is an open minded thing. it was ufc 3 [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif[/IMG]

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#136102 - 01/13/05 08:03 AM Re: misconception about JKD
Anonymous
Unregistered


Lee talked a lot about JKD not being a style, only a boat, a finger pointing to the moon, etc.

In spite of all that, he did teach specific techniques that, at least in the Oakland JKD school, were called JKD. Others have called this Jun Fan, but it wasn't called this at the Oakland school in the early 70's before the death of James Yimm Lee.

I think this was done in an attempt to identify frauds. Bruce was concerned over bogus JKD instructors, so, it doesn't surprise me that he wrote about JKD as only being a philosophy, while teaching his students the real system.

Prior to Bruce's death, he wasn't happy with what was going on at the Chinatown school and had Inosanto shut it down. He didn't close Oakland or Seattle, just Chinatown. At that time, it was no secret that Bruce was not happy with Inosanto...something that is echoed by Linda Lee.

However, time has passed and people forget, and Inosanto can rewrite history...and has. To his credit, he has followed the spoken philosophy of JKD...but, other than being a skilled teacher and a student of Lee's, he is doing nothing different from countless others that have never actually trained in JKD and claim to know Bruce Lee's true intent. Born out of this is a legacy of "concepts" instructors where anyone can claim to be teaching/learning JKD regardless of the material.

Further, when the obvious discrepancies are pointed out by those that know, they are met with responses such as "JKD is only a name, don't fuss over it." Of course this brings us full circle to the beginning. It's an interesting response considering this was one of the ways the founder of JKD kept it from being hijacked by charlatans in the first place.

Yes, Jeet Kune Do is a name and a philosophy. It is a system of fighting too. Those that reject this fact, or choose to ignore it, are either ignorant charlatans or have been taught wrong.

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#136103 - 01/14/05 05:24 AM Re: misconception about JKD
Anonymous
Unregistered


see ive had the honor to work with daniel inosanto and he kept telling me this,

"reject what is useless, accept what is usefull and add that what is truely your own. this is Jeet Kune Do."

now im not ghoing to argue with him because if anyones gonna know its him.

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#136104 - 01/14/05 12:27 PM Re: misconception about JKD
Anonymous
Unregistered


That too it allso true, and let me tell you theres allot off sshit in alot of styles, that i've seen. i say be yourself and adapt your combat tools to your own attributes.

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