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#135952 - 12/17/04 12:28 AM FAO: MAgon/ Takezo-Musashi
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
I was rereading some of our posts, and came across the takezo/Musashi reference. I did some research and learned a few things. However, I was curious about one thing that no one seemed to touch on. What was the significance and reasoning behind changing the surname from Takezo to Musashi?

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#135953 - 12/23/04 11:41 AM Re: FAO: MAgon/ Takezo-Musashi
MAGon Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 1737
Loc: Miami, Fl.
Hi, Chen. Check your e-mail.

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#135954 - 12/23/04 08:26 PM Re: FAO: MAgon/ Takezo-Musashi
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
[QUOTE]Originally posted by MAGon:
Hi, Chen. Check your e-mail.[/QUOTE]

My email has been corrupted. I have to set up a new account. I will do this within the next day and notify everyone here when I do.

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#135955 - 12/24/04 06:19 AM Re: FAO: MAgon/ Takezo-Musashi
MAGon Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 1737
Loc: Miami, Fl.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chen Zen:
My email has been corrupted. I have to set up a new account. I will do this within the next day and notify everyone here when I do.[/QUOTE]

OK, bud.
I e-mailed you my response in order not to impose on the other members. After all, the moderator might get upset. [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif[/IMG]
The short version is that the Kanji ideograms used to write "Takezo" can also be read as "Musashi". When he decided to break with his past and begin his shugyo, instead of changing his given name he merely changed the way he pronounced the characters that made it up. For a surname he took up the name of his hometown ("Miyamoto". I've also seen it as "Minamoto". That's probably another of the quirks of pronunciation or just plain regional differences that seem to abound in Japanese). So by this simple expedient "Musashi from Miyamoto" came to be. BTW, later in life he again changed his name, but the one that stuck was Miyamoto Musashi.


[This message has been edited by MAGon (edited 12-24-2004).]

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#135956 - 12/24/04 12:07 PM Re: FAO: MAgon/ Takezo-Musashi
Anonymous
Unregistered


MAgon,

Another Musashi fan I see - nice (correct) answer.

Be well,

- KiDoHae [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/cool.gif[/IMG]

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#135957 - 12/24/04 08:34 PM Re: FAO: MAgon/ Takezo-Musashi
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
The other name being "Kenshi" or Sword Saint?

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#135958 - 12/27/04 08:50 AM Re: FAO: MAgon/ Takezo-Musashi
MAGon Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 1737
Loc: Miami, Fl.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chen Zen:
The other name being "Kenshi" or Sword Saint?[/QUOTE]

No, "Kenshi" was an honorific popular "nickname" that the Japanese people gave to Musashi. I have no idea how this came to be.
The other name(s. I seem to recollect he might've changed it more than once. This was a common enough thing among samurai of the age. Sometimes honorific names were bestowed by their superiors, and adopted with pride) he took on later in life I don't recall, other than it was one of these bestowed honorifics, and that it was about a mile long!!! I think I can find it in my books, if you're really interested. Or if you're in a hurry, try the sword arts forum.

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#135959 - 12/31/04 09:41 PM Re: FAO: MAgon/ Takezo-Musashi
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
MAGON

Id like to hear your version of it if I may. If only for your comparison and the reason behind it.

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#135960 - 01/04/05 11:23 AM Re: FAO: MAgon/ Takezo-Musashi
MAGon Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 1737
Loc: Miami, Fl.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chen Zen:
MAGON

Id like to hear your version of it if I may. If only for your comparison and the reason behind it.
[/QUOTE]

Hooo!!! I was hoping you'd say "Nah, I'll look it up myself." OK, I'll see if I can come up with it. Now, if I could only remember where my copy of the "Go Rin No Sho" is...

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#135961 - 04/17/05 05:23 PM Re: FAO: MAgon/ Takezo-Musashi
Anonymous
Unregistered


Musashi used many names over his life, like many did at that time. I all depended on who he was addressing and what image he was trying to convey.

Oh I believe the word that you were looking for was kensai (sword saint) and not kenshi (sightseer, fencer, autopsy). Fencer is fesible but I have never seen him refered to as kenshi.

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#135962 - 04/21/05 07:36 AM Re: FAO: MAgon/ Takezo-Musashi
Anonymous
Unregistered


<Qoute> Shinmen Musashi No Kami Fujiwara No Genshin, or as he is commonly known Miyamoto Musashi, was born in the village called Miyamoto in the province Mimasaka in 1584. "Musashi" is the name of an area south-west of Tokyo, and the appellation "No Kami" means noble person of the area, while "Fujiwara" is the name of a noble family foremost in Japan over a thousand years ago.

Musashi's ancestors were a branch of the powerful Harima clan in Kyushu, the souther island of Japan. Hirada Shokan, his grandfather, was a retainer of Shinmen Iga No Kami Sudeshige, the lord of Takeyama castle.<unquote>

Go here ;-) ... http://www.samurai.com/5rings/transintro/life.html

Btw I'm wondering what this has to do with the principles of JKD? :-p

I thought this has to do with the book of 5 rings, etc...

Grtz Randy

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#135963 - 04/22/05 03:17 AM Re: FAO: MAgon/ Takezo-Musashi
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
Actually, it has to do with a comment made by MAGon to me in another thread a while back.

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#135964 - 04/22/05 06:53 AM Re: FAO: MAgon/ Takezo-Musashi
MAGon Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 1737
Loc: Miami, Fl.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chen Zen:
Actually, it has to do with a comment made by MAGon to me in another thread a while back.[/QUOTE]


Jeez! I'd forgotten this thread! Somebody resurrected it?
Chen, I'd totally forgotten I owed you Musashi's name late in life. I think one of the guys might've gotten it right in one of the posts, but I have doubts because I remember being struck by how different from the original the one he was using at the time of his death was. Problem is, I can't find my copy of the "Go Rin No Sho", darn it!! It was to be found in the prologue.
I'll keep looking.

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#135965 - 05/04/05 10:38 AM Re: FAO: MAgon/ Takezo-Musashi [Re: MAGon]
Tashigae Offline
Mister Bendy

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 690
Loc: Samarobriva, Gallia
If I remember right, the name he signed Gorin-no-Sho was "Shimmen-Musashi-no-Kami-Fujiwara-no-Genshin". Not 100% sure though, because I currently live far from home (thus from my library, thus from my Gorin-no-sho). I think Miyamoto was the name of the village where he grew up, and Shimmen the name of a daimyo who allowed him to use it as his own, as a sign of respect and admiration. Can't remember about the rest.

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