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#135943 - 12/15/04 08:51 PM The role of Fencing in the development of Jeet Kune Do?
Dog Of War Offline
Member

Registered: 03/24/04
Posts: 265
Loc: The Wastelands
I was reading a copy of The Tao of Jeet Kune Do the other day and noticed Lee borrowed some aspects from Western Fencing like foot work.Was there any other aspects he borrowed?Did he blend that with Kali and escrima?Also what does the term riposte mean?
Thanx-The Dog of War

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#135944 - 12/21/04 11:45 AM Re: The role of Fencing in the development of Jeet Kune Do?
JohnL Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/24/03
Posts: 4309
Loc: NY, NY, USA
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dog Of War:
I was reading a copy of The Tao of Jeet Kune Do the other day and noticed Lee borrowed some aspects from Western Fencing like foot work.Was there any other aspects he borrowed?Did he blend that with Kali and escrima?Also what does the term riposte mean?
Thanx-The Dog of War
[/QUOTE]

In reading Bruce Lee's references to fencing, it is apparent that his understanding of the subject was fairly rudimentary. Hey, I don't hold that against him, he wasn't a fencer!

As for the term riposte.

In MA terminolgy, you think of block and counter, in fencing you would think parry and riposte. Riposte is a french term. As BL quotes from Roger Crosniers book of fencing and the English generally use french terminology it would be an appropriate term.

JohnL

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#135945 - 01/18/05 01:20 AM Re: The role of Fencing in the development of Jeet Kune Do?
Anonymous
Unregistered


At the time 1960's Bruce was thinking ahead of the traditionalists to include fencing footwork. That was cutting edge at the time.

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#135946 - 01/18/05 11:06 AM Re: The role of Fencing in the development of Jeet Kune Do?
JohnL Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/24/03
Posts: 4309
Loc: NY, NY, USA
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Wilcox:
At the time 1960's Bruce was thinking ahead of the traditionalists to include fencing footwork. That was cutting edge at the time.[/QUOTE]

It may have been cutting edge at the time but it is fundamentally flawed.

Fencing footwork is very specific in what it is trying to acheive. It requires that you move forwards and backwards effeciently and effectively but requires no lateral movement. This is because due to having a sword, lateral movements are relatively ineffective compared to distance, changes in direction and timing.

In addition, as you have a weapon there is no need to have power in the techniques at the point of impact.

It should be further noted that if fencing footwork is used it effectively removes half the striking weapons available to the fighter.

As such I believe BL's studies, while useful, were interpeteted in a fairly basic manner.

JohnL

[This message has been edited by JohnL (edited 01-18-2005).]

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#135947 - 01/18/05 11:54 AM Re: The role of Fencing in the development of Jeet Kune Do?
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dog Of War:
I was reading a copy of The Tao of Jeet Kune Do the other day and noticed Lee borrowed some aspects from Western Fencing like foot work.Was there any other aspects he borrowed?Did he blend that with Kali and escrima?Also what does the term riposte mean?
Thanx-The Dog of War
[/QUOTE]

Its my understanding that riposte is the parrying movement.

BL also used the fencing lunge. He slightly modified it for fist fighting when he used the straight lead punch. Later he dropped it as it did not have much power in it. As it was stated power is not needed in fencing.

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#135948 - 01/18/05 12:43 PM Re: The role of Fencing in the development of Jeet Kune Do?
Anonymous
Unregistered


i use the foot work bl states in my sparring, to position my self to avoid being hit, works fine for me. footwork is your base you need footwork. with out it your stale.

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#135949 - 01/19/05 06:54 AM Re: The role of Fencing in the development of Jeet Kune Do?
JohnL Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/24/03
Posts: 4309
Loc: NY, NY, USA
Hi ChenZ

Just for your info. the term riposte in fencing refers to the offensive move after an attack has been parried.

Fencer A attacks (strikes), Fencer B parries (blocks), Fencer B then ripostes (attacks). Also it is called a riposte as opposed to another attack because the distance has invariably closed after the opponents initial attack, and the riposte is usually just a straightening of the arm without having to gain further distance.

Hope the above clarifies.

JohnL

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#135950 - 01/19/05 06:55 AM Re: The role of Fencing in the development of Jeet Kune Do?
JohnL Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/24/03
Posts: 4309
Loc: NY, NY, USA
Very little wrong with footwork BL describes, I just believe that the similarities with fencing footwork are limited due to the different requirements of the activities I outlined above.

JohnL

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#135951 - 01/19/05 02:25 PM Re: The role of Fencing in the development of Jeet Kune Do?
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
[QUOTE]Originally posted by JohnL:
Hi ChenZ

Just for your info. the term riposte in fencing refers to the offensive move after an attack has been parried.

Fencer A attacks (strikes), Fencer B parries (blocks), Fencer B then ripostes (attacks). Also it is called a riposte as opposed to another attack because the distance has invariably closed after the opponents initial attack, and the riposte is usually just a straightening of the arm without having to gain further distance.

Hope the above clarifies.

JohnL
[/QUOTE]

Very informative thank You John. Now I must reread that section in the Tao. That part was difficult for me as I have very little knowledge(obviously)of fencing though I would rather change that someday.

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