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#135916 - 12/15/04 02:54 PM Destroying Your Opponents Attack?
Wolfpack Offline
Member

Registered: 04/23/04
Posts: 124
Loc: Langley B.C. Canada
I have a friend who studies Jeet Kune Do and he was telling me about how Bruce lee when he studied fencing took the idea of destroying your opponents attack. He invorperated this into his martial art by using elbows to destroy a punch and knees to destroy a kick. Personally I can see how the knee can work as it has happen to me in a fight. (I ended up with a sprained ankle from my opponents knee :S)

I'm curiouse about how effective the elbow is though, very curiouse. Any of you Jeet Kune Do practinors ever use this technique? And if you have do you find it effective; as in can you raise your elbow fast enough to intercept the punch and is the damage to your elbow less than the fist?

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#135917 - 12/15/04 03:27 PM Re: Destroying Your Opponents Attack?
Anonymous
Unregistered


You better believe you can hit someone's fist with your elbow!

My friends and I have been working a modified version of chi sao practice for years now, and just using elbow blocks (not trying to hit the hand, just block it), we have ACCIDENTLY hit each others fists. OUCH!!

It is very easy to hurt the fist that way....trust me. Your elbow can be raised very fast (faster than the hand IMO, because the elbow has less distance to travel to it's target).

Your large arm bones are much sturdier that the little bones in your hand, as well. You would think that the chances of hitting the "funny bone" are high when doing this, but this has never happened to me as a result of doing an elbow block. I think chances are low if you use it as a strike, as well.

Very useful technique.

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#135918 - 12/15/04 04:36 PM Re: Destroying Your Opponents Attack?
Anonymous
Unregistered


in regards to blocking using elbows, if your attacker's speed is slow, for example someone who does not study the arts and is merely attacking you in the street, when and if they strike to hit you in the face you can raise your arm so that your nose is in the pit of your elbow. no matter how hard they hit you your face will remain cushioned and void of pain where as their fist will plummet into your elbow, using their attacking energy against them.

This is only an example and is surprisingly difficult to actually pull off, however i ahve mamaged it once when i was seventeen and was attacked whilst slighlty drunk and walking home from a pub one night. it worked very effectively and although i do not know the outcome of the damage, i could see the attacking lad was in extreme pain and the situation was diffused. on a side note i would not recomend fighting someone whilst under the influence of alcohol, not only does it dramatically slow reflexes but it also impairs judgement, leaving you to belive you have mystical kung fu powers that can render your attacker impotent merely by looking at them. This is EXTREME drunken boxing. he he.

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#135919 - 12/15/04 07:47 PM Re: Destroying Your Opponents Attack?
Chen Zen Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
I use this technique alot. Its also a good excercise to teach students not to reach outwards when attempting to block.

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#135920 - 12/15/04 08:11 PM Re: Destroying Your Opponents Attack?
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
I have absolutely no trouble executing this technique (elbow spike). It's immensely useful.

I tend to use it when I'm further away as it's not anything you'd want to do in close.

I do it by just raising my elbow and dropping my rear heel to the ground as the shot comes in. If the punch is aimed at my face (and from long distance, most are), I replace my nose with my elbow, if that makes any sense.

All you have to do is develop a little timing with it to make it successful. Just have someone put 16oz boxing gloves on (trust me, you'll NEED 16oz gloves) and practice. It's easy.

-John

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#135921 - 12/16/04 04:54 PM Re: Destroying Your Opponents Attack?
Anonymous
Unregistered


yeah once you practice it for a while it becomes almost automatic when you see your attacker go for that ranged high jab, but i personally find it easier to deflect and send them off their balance. i say easier, that doesnt mean its anywhere near as effective or prefered, just considerably easier.

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#135922 - 12/24/04 05:42 PM Re: Destroying Your Opponents Attack?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Ji Do Kwan utilizes this idea. Nearly every block is an attack on your opponents limb, redirecting it and damaging the wrist or forearm of the attacker.

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#135923 - 01/08/05 12:15 PM Re: Destroying Your Opponents Attack?
Anonymous
Unregistered


simple when your opponent attacks you with a left or right cross just raise you lead arm. i call it the forearm block

oo
o o 0o
o o o cross
oo o Ooooooo
oooooooooooo
o oo
o oo
o oo
o oo
o oo
oo
o o
o o
o o
o o
oo oo
(sorry about the stick man)

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#135924 - 01/08/05 12:25 PM Re: Destroying Your Opponents Attack?
Anonymous
Unregistered


doh.......the pic stuffed up

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#135925 - 01/08/05 02:35 PM Re: Destroying Your Opponents Attack?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Technically, it was Inosanto and his use of Arnis / Kali / Escrima that the idea of limb destruction entered in to JKD. This wasn't something that was being taught prior to 1973. That was when Bruce Lee died and Inosanto started adding the Filipino arts to his instruction.

Certainly effective, but often inaccurately credited to JKD as it was taught by Bruce Lee.

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#135926 - 01/21/05 08:52 PM Re: Destroying Your Opponents Attack?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Darn it you beat me to it. they are commonly called siko guntings. siko being the Tagalog term for elbow.

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#135927 - 02/16/05 08:56 AM Re: Destroying Your Opponents Attack?
Anonymous
Unregistered


as mentioned above, limb destruction comes from the kali side of jkd, as it mimics the slashing movement of a knife across the attacking hand.
if you imagine a vertical snap punch, to destroy the hand you would/could bring your elbow up and across from right to left (i.e your hand goes from chambered to almost meeting your left shoulder) the movement would be the same if you had a knife in your hand.
takes time to perfect but is very effective.

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#135928 - 05/05/05 01:15 AM Re: Destroying Your Opponents Attack? [Re: Wolfpack]
sjd Offline
Stranger

Registered: 05/05/05
Posts: 2
Elbow is very effective^^
Some people say that they use it in far range, i disagree with that Elbow is always used in a close Gap, u can use it to deliver a strike to the neck,chest and even the arm. It is only effective in close range not far range.

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#135929 - 05/05/05 07:10 AM Re: Destroying Your Opponents Attack? [Re: sjd]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Quote:

Elbow is very effective^^
It is only effective in close range not far range.




I think the elbow certainly has its uses in the long range (far range). It comes into play when you're just outside of his punching range. In training I always face off, just outside of punching range to force my opponent to have to take a step in order to reach me with his jab or cross. I know from that distance, such an attack will HAVE to be to my face (and most people are "head hunters").

As he steps in to deliver the shot, I simply put my elbow up in front of my face while feinting back slightly. Viola, the punch lands right on the tip of the elbow with pretty good accuracy. And that's from the outside range.

Pretty high percentage technique as well with rates of aproximately 75% or higher (with practice).


-John

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#135930 - 05/07/05 01:50 PM Re: Destroying Your Opponents Attack? [Re: Wolfpack]
jkdwarrior Offline
Member

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 341
Loc: belfast, Antrim, Ireland
I believe that the elbow isn't a good attack at long range because there are other techniques that are more efficient. A punch or bil jee has a better reach. The elbow is still a great technique, It can be used very effectively as a counter attack or after a feint. Eg. feint to the head and as their hand or attention is directed upwards, throw the elbow to the body. I wouldn't depend on the elbow as a core technique, however, only use it when a good opportunity presents itself.
_________________________
Sticks n stones'll break my bones, but if I land the first one, you're in trouble!

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#135931 - 05/10/05 01:30 PM Re: Destroying Your Opponents Attack? [Re: sjd]
Petjut84 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 102
you know you can do that elbow horizontal to the fist too right? I was just mentioning that because I have only seen jkd do it vertical. I like to parry the arm from the outside and do a rainbow motion elbow straight down onto the arm.

Travis

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#135932 - 05/10/05 01:33 PM Re: Destroying Your Opponents Attack? [Re: Chen Zen]
Petjut84 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 102
I dont know if I already posted this or not but you know Bruce lee didnt just "make up" the idea of attacking other peoples attacks right? He took that from phillipino and indonesian empty hand. That stuff was already there a LONG time ago and there are many more variations.

Travis

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#135933 - 05/10/05 09:46 PM Re: Destroying Your Opponents Attack? [Re: jkdwarrior]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Quote:

I believe that the elbow isn't a good attack at long range because there are other techniques that are more efficient.




The elbow I was referring to is called a destruction or "spike". It's a defensive maneuver that becomes quite offensive when your opponent's fist lands on it. If you see what I'm saying.

Travis-
Quote:

you know you can do that elbow horizontal to the fist too right? I was just mentioning that because I have only seen jkd do it vertical.
Travis




Thats basically what I was referring to. I use a more vertical elbow. I do it a little differently than I have seen many JKD guys do it though. It's done out of a boxing structure with not a lot of arm movement.

-John

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#135934 - 05/11/05 05:39 PM Re: Destroying Your Opponents Attack? [Re: JKogas]
jkdwarrior Offline
Member

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 341
Loc: belfast, Antrim, Ireland
The elbow I was referring to is called a destruction or "spike". It's a defensive maneuver that becomes quite offensive when your opponent's fist lands on it. If you see what I'm saying.

Yeah, good idea.
For the purposes of destroying your opponent's attack though it's going to be more efficient to attack on the opponent's preparation with the fastest technique from the weapon that's nearest the target. I can do it sometimes, but against someone who doesn't telegraph much, it's bloody difficult. A good question to ask I suppose is how to tell when someone is preparing an attack. I have a few answers i'll get to in a minute, but I would like to hear if anyone has any clues they could add to my list, or indeed if they have noticed these in sparring or a fight:
Biting of tongue or lip,
A quick galnce sideways,
Coming up onto the balls of the feet,
Retraction of the attacking weapon,
Freezing,
Jaw clenching,
Brows lowering,
Growling.
_________________________
Sticks n stones'll break my bones, but if I land the first one, you're in trouble!

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#135935 - 05/18/05 06:20 PM Re: Destroying Your Opponents Attack? [Re: jkdwarrior]
Petjut84 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 102
imagine there whole waist to neck area is a triangle. Basically you stare at the center and you should be able to see shoulder movement which proceeds a punch or hip movement which is before a kick. Their expression can lie though because they can look one way and hit you, it doesnt really matter how emotionally they look. THey might look scared and hit you. Gotta watch the root then go for the root so you can jam those areas.

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#135936 - 05/20/05 06:20 AM Re: Destroying Your Opponents Attack? [Re: Petjut84]
Rumble Offline
Member

Registered: 05/20/05
Posts: 92
One of the elbow techniques I have incorperated into my arsenal is called elbow blocking. I use this technique to block and hurt you at the same time, the harder my opponent hits the harder it hurts his hands. This technique is not easy to master you need to do alot of drilling and practicing to be effecient in this type of elbow blocking destruction.(gunting) I have stopped fights without having to throw a single punch but by blocking his punches with my elbows thus damaging or disabling his arms.
_________________________
Talk is cheap take it to the pit.

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#135937 - 05/20/05 04:01 PM Re: Destroying Your Opponents Attack? [Re: Rumble]
Petjut84 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 102
yeah, pretty good stuff. One good combination you can do with that vertical elbow gunting is to do it to the fist with your outside hand guiding their arm and then with the arm guiding push the arm down and do a horizontal shearing elbow down on the middle or their arm to the triceps area.

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#135938 - 06/07/05 08:28 AM Re: Destroying Your Opponents Attack? [Re: Petjut84]
kroh Offline
Member

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 103
Loc: Rhode Island, USA
Quote:

yeah, pretty good stuff. One good combination you can do with that vertical elbow gunting is to do it to the fist with your outside hand guiding their arm and then with the arm guiding push the arm down and do a horizontal shearing elbow down on the middle or their arm to the triceps area.




There is an excellent FMA drill that teaches this motion in the movement of flow called, "Tabun Seco Audibus." You'll have to forgive my spelling as my Tagolog is attrocious. But it teaches the very movement that you described.

Regards,
Walt
_________________________
Fight the Good Fight

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#135939 - 06/07/05 01:52 PM Re: Destroying Your Opponents Attack? [Re: JKogas]
KiDoHae Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 06/29/04
Posts: 999
Quote:

Pretty high percentage technique as well with rates of aproximately 75% or higher (with practice).


-John




John always curious when stats pop up. Is this a "guesstimate" based on your experience?

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#135940 - 06/07/05 08:54 PM Re: Destroying Your Opponents Attack? [Re: KiDoHae]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Quote:

John always curious when stats pop up. Is this a "guesstimate" based on your experience?




Yep. Just guesswork there really. It's another way of saying that I hit way more often than I do not.

-John

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#135941 - 06/07/05 09:55 PM Re: Destroying Your Opponents Attack? [Re: JKogas]
eyrie Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 3106
Loc: QLD, Australia
On the conservative side of course!

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#135942 - 06/07/05 10:06 PM Re: Destroying Your Opponents Attack? [Re: JKogas]
KiDoHae Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 06/29/04
Posts: 999
Thank you, kindly.

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